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Capri 25 a sprit/asym and a furler - rating?

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/23/2013 : 09:13:34

If I were to (hypothetically) install a furler on my Capri 25, and install a sprit (adjustable)... does anyone know how PORTSMOUTH would change my rating? We get an awful lot of "reach-fests" on our lake during the handicapped racing series. I am tired going slow and having no spinnaker fun. My large symmetrical does horrible on a reach (useless)... and I suppose I could get a different cut spinnaker, but my thoughts are to a reacher/asym.

In my local club I'd get a credit for the furler (this much I know)... I think it's almost a whole point. But for the sprit I'd need to go well over J to get any usefulness out of it. I figure at least 3 feet past the bow, but prefer 4 or 5.

My thoughts were to install a furler, put my antique 155 on it (for daysails, perhaps with sacrafice material on the leach)... and JUST before a race swap out to my good 155... in the off chance that I'd get good wind, I could install a 140 onto it.

As a secondary to that question would occasionally rolling my loadpath sail via it's luff hurt it? I mean it's not the way we normally roll it (we usually roll top down)... but it's still rolled and therefore not kinked and therefore not break the fibers. It'd come off after the race regardless.

Just thinking out loud... oh and I'd find something where I could remove the drum to race in OD if I ever wanted to. I would NOT ditch the symmetrical because it's a blast DDW.

C&C 32 Smith Mountain Lake Virginia

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 : 11:24:30

Really? Bueller?
I found this for PHRF: http://www.phrfne.org/page/handicapping/handicap_adjustments
Which if I read it correctly that each 10% over J you go (the distance between the headstay and the bottom of the mast), you get zinged 3 points in PHRF (3 seconds a mile). Um, I was looking at 4-5 feet, so 50%! That's -15 in PHRF! For Portsmouth that'd be like dropping 6-9 points! REALLY?

Well it MAY STILL be worth it under certain conditions. I think though to take less of a hit, I'd have to stick with say 3 feet, which is 1/3, or to keep it fair 30%, so -9 seconds/mile PHRF. So if my PHRF is 174 (a common number for the Capri 25), that'd put me 165 in PHRF... and my Portsmouth is 84, that'd put me at like 80-81. STILL might be worth it.

Edited by - shnool on 09/23/2013 11:25:11

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 : 11:51:51

now the cost... new kite (which I'd need anyway), $1000
selden retractable sprit, $700...

hmmm... MIGHT STILL BE WORTH IT! To get double digit surfing runs on my Capri 25 with very little effort... hmmm, well it SOUNDS like fun anyway.

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 : 17:58:20

John,

I can't comment on the handicap aspects, but my arch rival here is an ODay 32 that has a ~600 sq foot asymetric on a sprit, and is astounding on a close reach in a breeze! I have a star-cut symetric that I use in the same conditions, and while it works well, his asymetric seems to work much better for him.

When we are off the wind however, I can sail with or faster than him.

We do a LOT of "reach-fests" here too, and I have had the same thoughts you are having!!!

Chuck

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 : 18:19:13

I have tons of questions/obstacles I feel might prevent me from doing this...
a) the price of the furlers I'd want (low profile headsail furler), I refuse to cut my deck sweeper down, so I WILL NOT alter that sail, so looking at the likes of a Harken IV
b) with a furler on the boat won't there be an intrinsic tangle that could happen with the spinnaker halyard
c) costs of the asym.

But I guess I want to know if there is a better way to skin this cat, and get a better cut symmetrical. I think you answered my question though, as my antique symmetrical is a tri-radial... great for running, and some broad reaching... but not good for much else. I should consider a star that is cut more to reach.

Edited by - shnool on 09/23/2013 18:33:20

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2013 : 07:09:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by shnool
 
But I guess I want to know if there is a better way to skin this cat, and get a better cut symmetrical. I think you answered my question though, as my antique symmetrical is a tri-radial... great for running, and some broad reaching... but not good for much else. I should consider a star that is cut more to reach.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have two spinnakers. One is a radial head that is 3/4oz and very full. Works great in light airs and broad reaches and runs. The other is the star cut, 1.5oz. It is a slightly full star cut not one that is super flat, and is the chute I use 90% of the time (also because the 3/4 oz is getting really old). Its full enough it also works "ok" on broad reaches and runs, but is at its best on beam reaches and slightly ahead of the beam. Even so, the ODay 32's huge asymetric is far superior on beam to close reaches.

We launch from the bow for the 1st spinnaker hoist, and douse into the main cabin thru the companionway sliding hatch. Makes for an easy re-hoist if you can keep from getting things tangled up on the boom, etc. as the chute comes in under the Genny and Main, and then goes back out the same route. It also allows me to switch to the other chute by hoisting it from the bow pulpit and simply transferring the lines to it. Then I can use the full chute for legs with the wind aft, and totally change to the star cut for any legs closer to the wind.

I know there are a lot of tri-radials out there that are shaped to be able to reach OK, with the assumption that you will have an occasional beam to close reach, but mostly will be off the wind on reaches. For me, most of our courses are beam to close reaches, so thats why the star cut get used almost all of the time on legs that we can carry a chute.

Fun to think things through! Getting a flatter chute might be more cost effective also?

Cheers!

Chuck

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 09/24/2013 : 07:40:25

I think maybe 2 chutes is the way to go...
Here is my thinking (and pardon me sorting it out online)...
Downwind/broad there isn't a boat in our fleet faster than me. With a full masthead tri-radial, I carry roughly 100 square feet more sail than my competition... add to the fact that my boat is only 3500lbs (roughly 500lbs more than our lightest 25 footer the B25 which carries a fractional kite, and 1000lbs lighter than the S2 7.9 which ALSO carries a fractional kite).

So I think I need a way to PICK and choose my kite and have one that I can reach with that is flatter... so a star cut reaching symmetric might be my choice.. I MAY need to make this tri-radial last another year though, to use when we have a real W/L course, but purchase a flatter star cut reacher then for beam reaches. I'd be loathed to put up a flat kite on a DDW run for fear it wouldn't give me that tremendous speed advantage I see now throwing the tri-radial.

LOTS to think about. Might be time to ask these questions of Harry over at epsails... So far I have been quite impressed with what I've gotten from them.
HA sometimes I should read Edited after I found this: http://www.epsails.com/Choose%20your%20Spinnaker.htm
So I should be asking about a "Code 1S" no?

Edited by - shnool on 09/24/2013 07:48:31

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