Association Forum - C-25 Swing Keel- Broken input shaft on winch

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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

C-25 Swing Keel- Broken input shaft on winch

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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/08/2013 : 06:13:29

Hi guys,

Im fresh new to the world of Catalina ownership and excited. Purchased a great 1985 C-25, swing keel, standard rig. Boat has been well maintained and over the winter I plan on updating and getting everything in great order.

My first order of business is to fix the keel winch. The cable, winch and ancillaries have all been replaced within the past year and a half but the previous owner, while turning the keel winch, snapped the head on the input shaft.

Im trying to find out:

1) if this piece snapped off the socket, or actually off the shaft.
2) if it is off the shaft, is it possible to replace just the shaft? or is a new winch required?
3) If it requires a new winch, can that be installed while the boat is wet and keel is down?

Im going down to the boat this evening to see if I can get a better idea but I appreciate any help as i am stuck in work for now.

Thank you!

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2013 : 07:39:22

Hard to answer #1 without seeing pictures of the break. It is possible to change out the winch with the boat in the water. You will just need to be careful to not let the cable drop down the tube. Pay careful attention to how the cable is attached to the winch as you disconnect it.

Edited by - on

Sam001
Vice Commodore

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USA
441 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2013 : 07:53:06

Welcome to the Catalina 25 family. This is a great place to get answers!
There is a LOT of knowledge here.

Edited by - on

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2013 : 08:51:29

The break is not on the handle but where the key attaches to the shaft. I will take some photographs this evening when I get down to the boat. Also, Thank you everyone for any advice. I know that over the next few months while going through everything on the boat, everyone's knowledge here will be extremely helpful!

Edited by - on

Sam001
Vice Commodore

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USA
441 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2013 : 09:49:27

You will also hear it is worth the effort to join the association too. I did.
and it is!!

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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2013 : 17:07:31

Alright, back from the boat. So it seems that the input shaft is threaded on the end and then reduces I believe. That is where the break is. The part that goes into the key. See the pictures below. Also, let me know if anyone can identify the winch. Thank you!!

Edited by - on

capted
1st Mate

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39 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2013 : 17:25:12

The key is held onto the shaft by the two allen screws. I'd remove them and see if you have enough shaft left to mount the key. I got a similar winch from Catalina Direct, and they may be able
to help you with parts if necessary.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2013 : 18:38:17

Or Fulton. I would contact them first.

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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2013 : 20:22:38

Do you believe that it is a Fulton winch?

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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2013 : 20:25:14

Oh, I see it on the text now!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2013 : 12:52:07

Do NOT lose the key that broke off the winch. It is necessary so that the socket welded onto the end of the winch handle will have something to engage in order to turn the winch. This whole set-up acts as a removable shaft extension so that the handle will not catch on the ladder. I believe that you will be better off calling Fulton (or CD) and order a new model K1550 brake winch. Replace the winch and install the key on the new winch.
An alternative would be to call Grainger and see if they have an acceptable substitute for the K1550. Be sure and mention the key.
We recently replaced the OEM brake winch on a C-22 with a Dutton-Lainson winch, model DLB1200A, which handles up to 1200 lbs. and it works very well. Their model DLB1500A handles up to 1500 lbs.
My only concern with the Dutton-Lainson winch is whether it will accept the key.

Edited by - dmpilc on 10/10/2013 12:56:17

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2013 : 13:00:07

It's remotely possible that you could order a replacement drum axle/shaft from Fultom, but I doubt it. Either way you will need to remove the winch from the boat. Might as well replace it with a new one and have the peace of mind that that goes with it.

Edited by - dmpilc on 10/10/2013 13:06:57

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 10/10/2013 : 18:13:25

So a Fulton rep has told me that the winches don't come with anything to accept the key and "must have been modified by Catalina". My thought is that if that's true and it was a clean brake, couldn't I remove the half inch or so, clean up the threads and reattach the key?

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2013 : 07:00:30

David -

I know Catalina Direct has them (maybe $150) but here is one I found at Amazon for a little over $100 with Free Shipping. The CD might come with the adapter but you should be able to salvage you old one.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KOROCI/ref=asc_df_B000KOROCI2764787?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=dealt848301-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B000KOROCI

Regards,

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2013 : 15:31:46

Just remember the handle must get past the steps and that is a mod that Catalina Direct does for you. I would bite the bullet and get the new winch fro CD. Sailboat maintenance is great fun with the right parts and potentially dangerous and at the vary least frustrating when the parts are not the right ones.

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BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 10/11/2013 : 20:39:31

David - By the looks of that damaged shaft, it looks as if the keel was cranked up too far. This time it was the shaft, the next time it could be the cable or attachment to the keel (with much more drastic results). Get the winch from CD and consider yourself lucky and getting off cheap. I painted a red mark on my cable to judge the full-up position.

Best of luck with the boat.

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Jay Schkloven
1st Mate

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USA
84 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2013 : 07:36:58

I agree with a previous post. Mark the cable so that it is not over tightened. I measure and mark a new cable with white Rustoleum before I install a new cable. Then I know that when I crank it up I will not over tighten and stress the cable.

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Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2013 : 07:58:48

Those two nuts were apparently on there (in tandem, to lock them in place) to prevent the key from turning on the shaft. With even one set screw engaging a keyway milled into the shaft (and secured in place with a threadlocker, like Loctite blue) they are not necessary. Indeed, they could have been the cause of the break by pushing against the back of the key, if the set screws were gripping the shaft securely, and subjecting the shaft to a lot of localized tension at that point. The torsion(twisting force) applied to the shaft by the key would normally be applied at the set screws, not where the shaft exits the back of the key, and there couldn't be enough bending force applied by manually cranking to flex the shaft enough to break it unless it's already subject to excessive strain from those locknuts.

Edited by - on

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