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RAG Sailor
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144 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2013 : 13:29:02

That way it can't lift off. If you need to make two dock-lines to the same cleat, you can drop the first loop over the cleat, and then do the "locking" method with the other--it'll lock both lines. That's easier with larger-thoated cleats than the C-25 has. Mine look like this:

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Your picture is what I was describing. However, the "throat" of the cleat on my vessel is to small for my line. I cannot feed it through. That is why I opted to do that on the dock cleat (where the "throat" is larger. I'm still playing around with it and will eventually settle upon a routine.

Edited by - on

Davy J
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Response Posted - 10/16/2013 : 14:39:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">However, the "throat" of the cleat on my vessel is to small for my line. I cannot feed it through. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I got tired of the stock cleats and replaced them with the type Mr. Bristle points out. It also makes it easier to tie multiple lines to the cleats.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm not sure that's what Davy was driving at.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The line in the photo is not thru the throat, but rather just looped over the cleat.

Edited by - on

shnool
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Response Posted - 10/16/2013 : 17:16:20

I interlock my looped bow lines... actually once docked I go back over my dock lines and interlock one on top of the other on the bow cleats. I thought I was the only one crazy enough to be that detail oriented.

By the way, they hold nicely to 65+mph winds!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 10/16/2013 : 19:12:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RAG Sailor
 Your picture is what I was describing. However, the "throat" of the cleat on my vessel is to small for my line. I cannot feed it through...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">OK, here's a variation that doesn't require a throat. Drop the loop over the cleat on the boat, pull it away from the dock, twist it a half turn, and then loop it back over the cleat. It's locked. You can sorta see it on my old boat here...

The advantage of either of these techniques is the lines can be adjusted "just right" on the cleats on your dock, left there, and quickly cleated on the boat.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/16/2013 19:17:06

RAG Sailor
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Response Posted - 10/16/2013 : 20:24:13

Ahoy maties. We're getting off topic. I want to know about solo docking...the moving part. Not the stationary part. Thanks!

Edited by - on

Lee Panza
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Response Posted - 10/16/2013 : 21:58:02

I'm a little surprised that, with the number of responses so far, nobody has said anything about: "I use a 9.9 Mercury Big foot in locked position and steer with my tiller." At the universally-recommended slow speed approaching the dock the tiller becomes relatively unresponsive, whereas the motor is capable of pushing or pulling in a wide range of directions. I keep a hand on the tiller, because any lateral movement of the stern in response to the motor hard over will cause the rudder and tiller to swing dramatically. But I use the motor for fine-tuning my approach and for stopping. Just keep in mind that there's usually a mechanism, which slips into place when the gear-shifter lever is moved to the reverse direction, that keeps the motor from tilting up when the prop is pulling the bottom of the motor aft; this needs to be properly functioning or else when you throw the motor in reverse just before your bow hits the dock the motor swings away instead of pulling the boat to a stop.

You'll also find that you can approach the finger (or a long guest dock) at an angle and then put the motor in reverse and turn it to pull the stern toward the dock as well as slowing you down to a stop. That way you wind up parallel to the dock when the boat stops moving and just step off with a line in your hand. With a little practice you can earn kudos, from anyone who comes over to help, when there's nothing left for them to do.

Edited by - on

sethp001
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Response Posted - 10/16/2013 : 22:17:40

Edited by - on

Ape-X
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 03:01:44

several in my marina use short "spring" lines to the winch from the end of the dock. Some have varying speeds, but the same technique: enter the slip, pick up the short line, drop its loop over the winch and that will stop the boat short of the wall. Another line to the stern cleat keeps rotation under control as a second line, and then the bow lines follow.

I use a spring line mounted mid dock: when leaving the slip it is placed at the end of the dock to be picked up. When the midships pass the end of the dock, the admiral picks up the line and walks it forward to the bow cleat. If she misses, I will put a burst of reverse which walks the transom over for me to pick up the aft line. We typically don't use reverse coming in. prop walk and all. So very slow coming in makes for an easy time docking.

For an o/b using the motor steering in conjumction with the tiller makes the boat VERY AGILE.

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 04:55:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Lee Panza
 I'm a little surprised that, with the number of responses so far, nobody has said anything about: "I use a 9.9 Mercury Big foot in locked position and steer with my tiller."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Probably because your Mercury has the integrated throttle shifter which allows you to easily shift between forward, neutral,and reverse without having to take your eyes off the prize, meaning the dock and your boat. Those without that feature would have to look back at the outboard, reach down over the transom, manually position the shift lever, then move to the throttle, then shift again, and quite possibly having to do this (F/N/R) multiple times while entering the dock. I've witnessed a lot of mishaps from sailors getting into trouble doing the shift lever dance. When feasible, eliminating the outboard from the docking equation simplifies the whole process. Like others have stated, I'm in neutral a good ways away from my slip and although I generally keep my motor running in case I need to add a little speed, oftentimes I shut it down as I slowly glide silently the last boat length into the slip.

Another advantage coming in without relying on the outboard is that you'll having the know how and experience to dock sans outboard in the event the outboard malfunctions. This has happened to me a few times, but each time it was somewhat of a non-event as I'm set up to come in this way as a matter of course.

Edited by - on

cshaw
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 05:52:24

Lots of good advice on this topic! I too like to go out solo, and routinely dock solo with guests on board that have never been on a boat before (too many incidents by well meaning but inexperienced passengers).

I have one finger pier on the stbd side, so thats obviously the side I hang the fenders. The boat is aimed to the east in the slip, with the predominant wind at the slip from the SE, which blows the boat away from the finger pier usually.

I come in dead slow in neutral with the engine idling (motor is mounted on the port side). I use my boat hook the pick up the stbd aft dock line, which has a loop in the end that I slip over the stbd sheet winch so it will temporarily act as a spring line. It will help stop the boat, but just as importantly, when I put the motor back into forward (still idling), it will spring the boat upwind over to the dock and hold it there instead of allowing the boat to blow away from the dock. In a strong breeze I have to use a bit more throttle.

Then while the boat is held against the dock (i.e. motionless!) I can get off the boat and pick up the regular spring line (a 25ft long line that goes forward to the stbd bow cleat), and the other 3 dock lines. The last action is to move the stbd aft dock line from the winch to the stbd aft cleat. I love to use spring lines to warp the boat into or away from docks/slips.

I did not mention it, but after the motor is holding the boat against the dock with the aft spring line, I pull the gas line so it burns the gas out of the carb (2 cycles get a gummy carb if you leave gas in the carb).

I really line the idea of the pvc pipe with the line through it and loops covered in plastic tubing on each end to keep the loops open! Currently, I have to make sure I can grab that stbd aft dock line with the boat hook, and if I miss, I have to then try for the normal spring line. With the pvc "loop hook" that will act as an aft spring, I think the whole process might just work even easier!!! Good tip!

I see a lot of people come into the slip too fast (presumably to maintain good steerage) but then they rely on their motor to stop the boat in the slip. That works fine till the motor dies and then you can be in a pickle!!! Far better to learn how the wind affects your boat and then use that rather than fighting it. If my motor dies while holding against the temporary aft spring line, the boat will simply drift away from being up against the dock, but by then I am on the dock securing the boat.

Chuck

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 07:13:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RAG Sailor
 Ahoy maties. We're getting off topic. I want to know about solo docking...the moving part. Not the stationary part. Thanks!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Ron, I got into the dock-line/cleat discussion because part of the "moving part" involves having dock lines that can be quickly and easily applied by the single-hander. And then there was the famous photo... (We often go off on these tangents--sorry.)

OK--the moving part... There has been at least one mention of "prop walk"--it's something most new boaters are unaware of and then perplexed by (without really knowing it). This primarily has to do with applying power at very slow speeds, or power in the opposite direction of your motion (as in reverse when you're going forward). It's not exactly intuitive, since the propeller is symmetric, but for reasons that get into fluid dynamics, with a burst of power in forward gear, the prop tends to push the stern to starboard (turning the bow to port); in reverse, it pulls the stern to port (which if you're going forward, can actually help turn the boat more sharply to starboard). Once a skipper gets that, he can use it as one of his tools in low-speed maneuvering (and avoid screwing up what he otherwise did well).

I use it on a 1917 Herreshoff inboard launch, which has very limited steering capability in reverse, to help me literally pivot the boat in place getting into and out of a very tight docking situation. It also helps me to know that if I'm approaching a dock on starboard, a burst in reverse is going to pull my stern away from it, which might be counterproductive.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/17/2013 07:17:16

Lee Panza
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 07:46:22

Another technique I find helpful in solo docking is to use a continuous line permanently cleated at the bow and stern but with plenty of excess in between. I've forgotten how long mine are (both sides of the boat, so I'm always ready for either side) but I think they're about 40' or so. The excess is hanked over the forward-projecting arms of the pushpit just aft of the lifeline gate. As I'm preparing for my final approach to a dock I unhook the pelican hook and slide the loops off, and spread the excess line out in the cockpit so it deploys smoothly, and then I grab it anywhere along its length as I step onto the dock. Now I have the lines from both ends of the boat securely in one hand - no chance of dropping one while securing the other. I just loop it over a dock cleat near one end of the boat and keep tension on that part while I'm securing it to the dock cleat near the other end.

This has proved to be a boatsaver on several occasions when I've had to land at a dock with a considerable cross-wind blowing away from the dock. Once the loop is over a dock cleat there's no way for the boat to get away: the worst that can happen is it drifts out until the loop is taut. Then I can pull one end in and secure it at a time. As long as there's enough leeway on the downwind side of the dock there's no harm.

When I have to approach a dock with an adverse cross-wind I come in at an angle, aiming just past the cleat I want to grab, and just as I reach the dock I throw the motor hard over in reverse to pull the stern toward the dock. Then I reach this line out and over the cleat, using the boat hook to extend my reach rather than trying to reach it by just leaning over the side, as the boat is falling off away from the dock. Once I've got one dock cleat I back the boat quickly toward the next dock cleat aft so I can pass this loop of line over that one as well. By that time the bow has drifted away, but if I've been quick enough to grab two cleats I can easily pull the boat back to the dock. One time the wind was too strong for me to grab two dock cleats; by the time I was backing toward the 2nd one the bow had fallen off perpendicular to the dock and my loop isn't long enough to reach from my bow cleat to the dock cleat and then to the next aft dock cleat and back to the boat. I was forced to back up toward the one dock cleat that I had caught initially, with the excess of the loop trailing out in the water past the bow; I picked that portion of the line out of the water with the boat hook and then pulled the boat back upwind toward the dock (I had tried backing toward the dock with the motor, but by the time I had put it in neutral and had started to climb over the pushpit the boat had drifted too far from the dock to safely jump). Now this certainly can be done with a single dock line from the aft cleat on the boat, if the loose end is also secured to the boat to form a long loop, as long as you can step ashore with a second line from the bow cleat that's long enough to reach back to the dock at an angle to the next dock cleat, but with a continuous loop you have the option of pulling the loop toward the next dock cleat in either direction if there are other boats hanging from the dock.

I'm sure that if one needs to catch an upwind dock without help a relatively long springline from the bow, with a loop at the end, could work: back the boat toward the dock until it's possible to slip the loop over the dock cleat using the boat hook, and then "crab" sideways toward the next dock cleat until you can reach a shorter line from the aft boat cleat to pass over it. Then you can get onto the dock and pull the bow in.

Coming into an upwind (or up-current) dock without help is one of the more "interesting" challenges of solo sailing, but at least the techniques described above by others can eliminate most of the opportunity for error if it's your home berth and you can set things up to do the same procedure every time. The dockline loop bridle that I use just gives you the added security of having control of both ends of the boat without the chance of dropping a line from one end while you're working with the other. Once the loop is over a dock cleat you've got options, and you've got time to figure things out if you're at an unfamiliar dock with the wind and/or current pulling you off.

Oh, and another reason I use this system is for launching at the ramp. My swing-keel model can't float off the trailer without putting my truck in the water. I don't like to let the water get over the wheel rims and up into the brakes, and that would also put the electrical socket for the trailer plug into the salt water (I learned after only one mistake not to do that). So I "bump" the boat off (my trailer has rollers, rather than bunks, but the boat won't roll off by itself) by rolling down the ramp and braking hard just as the rear wheels of the truck hit the water. The loop bridle leaves enough slack for this without the possibility of the boat getting away. Securing two lines to the dock beforehand would certainly work, as long as enough slack is left on both of them, but the single line loop is more convenient (I launch/retrieve just about every weekend). And, again, it's safer for controlling both ends of the boat as I maneuver the boat to (or from) the end of the dock just after launching (or before winching it back onto the trailer). The dock between our ramps runs perpendicular to the prevailing winds, and whenever there's some clueless <s>power</s>boater occupying the upwind side while they try to figure out what they're doing I'm able to safely use the downwind side.

Edited by - Lee Panza on 10/17/2013 07:56:05

pastmember
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 07:50:52

How people dock and tie off is always a fun topic here. I tie off differently than anyone I have ever seen therefore all of you and everyone at every dock I have visited do it wrong. As for docking you should be able to use reverse if you need to and the number one skill you must develop is the ability to sail in single handed. If you cannot sail in then you are counting on a series of events to go right; that will not always work out. I had to sail in the other day when I was the only person a the club, (note thread about engine issues elsewhere). When you get sailing in down then you really understand "way-on" which is the whole deal to docking well. When you get the feel for the momentum of your boat then you can deal with head and tail winds into the slip. Strong side winds get everyone though so if you are not as graceful as usual with the odd wind just know everyone else has had the same issue that day and enjoy the chaos. Also remember that it is OK to have a scrape or two on your boat, it means you sail when you want to and are not sitting at the dock waiting for the perfect easy wind. As for the whole cleat thing... harumpf. The stock cleats have held through wind up to 100 mph at my club and they will not hurt people like those terrifying things above if your guest kicks one on the end.

edit

I guess since I do not deal with "surge" then my cleats may not have had to sustain the load from wind that some boats sustain from water so maybe stronger backing is a good idea. All our boats ever do is try to roll under the docks... not jump up on them.

Edited by - pastmember on 10/17/2013 07:53:31

RAG Sailor
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 07:57:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RAG Sailor
 Ahoy maties. We're getting off topic. I want to know about solo docking...the moving part. Not the stationary part. Thanks!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Ron, I got into the dock-line/cleat discussion because part of the "moving part" involves having dock lines that can be quickly and easily applied by the single-hander. And then there was the famous photo... (We often go off on these tangents--sorry.)

OK--the moving part... There has been at least one mention of "prop walk"--it's something most new boaters are unaware of and then perplexed by (without really knowing it). This primarily has to do with applying power at very slow speeds, or power in the opposite direction of your motion (as in reverse when you're going forward). It's not exactly intuitive, since the propeller is symmetric, but for reasons that get into fluid dynamics, with a burst of power in forward gear, the prop tends to push the stern to starboard (turning the bow to port); in reverse, it pulls the stern to port (which if you're going forward, can actually help turn the boat more sharply to starboard). Once a skipper gets that, he can use it as one of his tools in low-speed maneuvering (and avoid screwing up what he otherwise did well).

I use it on a 1917 Herreshoff inboard launch, which has very limited steering capability in reverse, to help me literally pivot the boat in place getting into and out of a very tight docking situation. It also helps me to know that if I'm approaching a dock on starboard, a burst in reverse is going to pull my stern away from it, which might be counterproductive.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No apologies necessary! There is so much here that it's hard not to follow a train of thought. Your info above is very helpful. Also, someone else mentioned about locking down the shaft so when you go backwards the prop doesn't shift out of the water. That happened the first time I used the engine to move my newly purchased boat from the PO's slip to mine. I quickly learned about checking that. It's one of the items I now have on my "Leaving the Dock To Do" list.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 12:05:02

What is your outboard? Now days, most have a tilt-lock that activates automatically when you shift into reverse.

Edited by - on

RAG Sailor
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 12:12:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 What is your outboard? Now days, most have a tilt-lock that activates automatically when you shift into reverse.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It does have a tilt lock but it is manual. When I'm done for the day I hoist it up out of the water and then tilt it slightly. When I want to go out, in order for me to tilt it back to straight, I have to tilt it even further and then the ratchets release and bypasses all the positions back to neutral. From there I engage the tilt lock when it is back in the straight up and down position and lower the engine.

Edited by - on

RAG Sailor
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 12:13:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RAG Sailor
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 What is your outboard? Now days, most have a tilt-lock that activates automatically when you shift into reverse.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It does have a tilt lock but it is manual. When I'm done for the day I hoist it up out of the water and then tilt it slightly. When I want to go out, in order for me to tilt it back to straight, I have to tilt it even further and then the ratchets release and bypasses all the positions back to neutral. From there I engage the tilt lock when it is back in the straight up and down position and lower the engine.

It is a 2012 Merc 9.9 long shaft.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

RAG Sailor
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 12:14:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RAG Sailor
 [quote]Originally posted by RAG Sailor
 [quote]Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 What is your outboard? Now days, most have a tilt-lock that activates automatically when you shift into reverse.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It does have a tilt lock but it is manual. When I'm done for the day I hoist it up out of the water and then tilt it slightly. When I want to go out, in order for me to tilt it back to straight, I have to tilt it even further and then the ratchets release and bypasses all the positions back to neutral. From there I engage the tilt lock when it is back in the straight up and down position and lower the engine.

It is a 2012 Merc 9.9 long shaft.

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 13:45:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RAG Sailor
 It is a 2012 Merc 9.9 long shaft.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That tilt lock lever locks your outboard in the full up position to prevent it from lowering unexpectedly. Personnally, I've never used that lever to lock it in the full up position, but rather just use the auto tilt/ratchet function. In reverse, your outboard should auto lock to prevent it from lifting.

Edited by - on

RAG Sailor
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 14:03:08

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 16:22:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RAG Sailor
 Don, that is not the case with my OB. Mine is not equipped with the Power Tilt accessory. Those ratchet positions I was referring to are for shallow water operation. There is another (manual) knob for lock and unlock tilt position. That is the one that must be locked so that the OB doesn't kick up when the engine is revved. If you are interested I'd be glad to email you the manual.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are you sure? The tilt lock/unlock is used when one needs to lock the outboard in the full tilt position. This is used mainly on fishing boats when the 9.9 is used as a trolling motor and prevents it from failing down when the boat is wave hopping.

Check out this video about 1 minute 50 seconds in...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5C-ls960ys"]Mercury 9.9[/url]

Edited by - on

RAG Sailor
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 17:15:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RAG Sailor
 Don, that is not the case with my OB. Mine is not equipped with the Power Tilt accessory. Those ratchet positions I was referring to are for shallow water operation. There is another (manual) knob for lock and unlock tilt position. That is the one that must be locked so that the OB doesn't kick up when the engine is revved. If you are interested I'd be glad to email you the manual.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are you sure? The tilt lock/unlock is used when one needs to lock the outboard in the full tilt position. This is used mainly on fishing boats when the 9.9 is used as a trolling motor and prevents it from failing down when the boat is wave hopping.

Check out this video about 1 minute 50 seconds in...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5C-ls960ys"]Mercury 9.9[/url]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks Don. My first day out I couldn't get the trim changed to position #3. The manual does not describe it as the video shows. I had 4 other skippers trying to help us. Thank g-d my marina has wifi. After struggling with it in the blazing sun for 45 min, my wife found the exact same video on her phone. However, two things: where it is mounted on the transom, I can't use the tiller as a lever. I have to reach over the top of the hood and pull it back from there while the tiller is in the up position. It's not "effortless"! Not too hard but not as easy to do like the video shows. #2 what the video doesn't tell you is once the shaft is down in the right trim position, you need to use the locking mechanism. It's not only for when it is in the total up position for transporting. It locks in the pre-set trim position. If you don't use it, that's when it jerks up when revved. Again... Thanks for going to the trouble for me!

Edited by - on

pastmember
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 17:40:46

My little 5 hp Tohatsu kicks up in reverse because it will not run at a low enough rpm to shift into reverse without it thinking it just hit a log and breaking over the tilt lock pin.

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panhead1948
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 17:43:46

Well I will weight in also. I have a finger pier on the starboard side. As I approach my dock I take the motor out of gear and glide in. I have a short line with a small loop in one end and a large loop in the other. I put the small loop over the winch and drop the larger loop over the piling at the stern end of he finger pier. My bow line is very long and when I leave the slip I run it down the starboard side and take it with me. When the short line stops the boat I step off with the bow line and tie it up.

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dlucier
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Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 17:46:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RAG Sailor
 #2 what the video doesn't tell you is once the shaft is down in the right trim position, you need to use the locking mechanism. It's not only for when it is in the total up position for transporting. It locks in the pre-set trim position. If you don't use it, that's when it jerks up when revved. Again... Thanks for going to the trouble for me!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ron,

Unless your linkage is out of adjustment, your outboard should automatically lock when not in forward gear. That is why in the video the instructor shifts to forward to tilt the motor, because it is automatically locked when in neutral or reverse. If the linkage is not adjusted correctly, yes, it will jerk up when rev'd in reverse, but that is not normal.

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