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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Swing Keel Lifting Cable & Hanging Caster

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RAG Sailor
Navigator

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USA
144 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/19/2014 : 15:02:42

I'm getting ready to order the retrofit keel hanging caster and spacer kit. While I was at it I wanted to replace the lifting cable. I noticed that I can purchase the cable separate from the entire kit (which also includes among other items the rubber hose). The few times I had the chance to use my boat this fall I noticed that when ever I motored backwards (getting into my slip) water would come up through the hose and wet the quarter berth. Is this common with all C25 swing keels or did the PO not install the hose correctly to prevent this? Is there anything else suggested to assure a smooth sailing season concerning my swing keel?

Good to be back at sea!

Edited by - on

jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2014 : 16:27:42

I've never had any water come through when motoring into the slip. I would replace the hose. Its cheap and can sink you boat. One of those better off safe parts.

When I replaced all of the hardware on mine, I did notice that bronze tube the hose connects to was loose in the hull. Pretty easy to fix. Its worth giving it a good wiggle while you're down there.

The new bronze hangers are pain in the ass. Be prepared to do a lot of grindingmilling to them.

Lastly, don't forget to check the cable attachment point on the keel. There is an upgrade for that. I couldn't get the bolt out last season. So, my keel is going to the machine shop to get it milled out and re-threaded.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2014 : 17:22:33

That's common with the swing keel boat. When you shift into reverse and give it some throttle, the prop wash can be strong enough to force a little geyser up the hose. Some people stuff a small sponge in the top of the hose to block it. Nevertheless, it's probably a good idea to replace the hose while you're at it, because, although they rarely fail, if the hose fails, it can sink the boat.

Edited by - on

RAG Sailor
Navigator

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USA
144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2014 : 17:43:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jduck00
 I've never had any water come through when motoring into the slip. I would replace the hose. Its cheap and can sink you boat. One of those better off safe parts.

When I replaced all of the hardware on mine, I did notice that bronze tube the hose connects to was loose in the hull. Pretty easy to fix. Its worth giving it a good wiggle while you're down there.

The new bronze hangers are pain in the ass. Be prepared to do a lot of grindingmilling to them.

Lastly, don't forget to check the cable attachment point on the keel. There is an upgrade for that. I couldn't get the bolt out last season. So, my keel is going to the machine shop to get it milled out and re-threaded.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wish I had the facility, but my boat is at a marina 100 miles from home. I have a good marine service shop that will do the work. We plan to go over everything needed and their guys will pull the boat ( currently in the water) and do the work. Thanks for the input.

Edited by - on

RAG Sailor
Navigator

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USA
144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2014 : 17:45:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 That's common with the swing keel boat. When you shift into reverse and give it some throttle, the prop wash can be strong enough to force a little geyser up the hose. Some people stuff a small sponge in the top of the hose to block it. Nevertheless, it's probably a good idea to replace the hose while you're at it, because, although they rarely fail, if the hose fails, it can sink the boat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

RAG Sail II came with all the equipment we needed, including a rag stuffed into the top of the hose

Edited by - on

WesAllen
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2014 : 19:25:55

When I replaced the lifting system on mine last year I bought the whole kit. (pivot pin and casting already done). Water would come up my hose before this. The new hose with the kit was at least 4 inches longer than the old hose. No more water comes up my hose now. It goes high enough to be very close to the winch. Plus I put a piece PVC pipe over that to keep it straight. Be sure to change the turning ball.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 01/19/2014 : 21:42:16

Yepper, change the turning ball every time you replace the cable. The CD keel attachment is a worthwhile enhancement. I didn't replace the hanger casting. I polished two SS fender washers, put thin nylon washers against the keel with the SS washers outboard. The nylon washers bind to the rough keel and slide smoothly against the SS, providing a larger bearing surface to reduce wear. In conjunction with drilling and sleeving the keel and replacing the pivot pin, I have eliminated the "clunk" of keel wobble without the spacer pads. I still get a geyser with to much throttle in reverse.

Edit: Loosen and re-torque the hanger bolts at least every year to avoid seizing to the threaded fittings with a big repair. Replace the hanger bolts after a few re-torquings.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 01/19/2014 21:46:37

RAG Sailor
Navigator

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USA
144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2014 : 08:18:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 Yepper, change the turning ball every time you replace the cable. The CD keel attachment is a worthwhile enhancement. I didn't replace the hanger casting. I polished two SS fender washers, put thin nylon washers against the keel with the SS washers outboard. The nylon washers bind to the rough keel and slide smoothly against the SS, providing a larger bearing surface to reduce wear. In conjunction with drilling and sleeving the keel and replacing the pivot pin, I have eliminated the "clunk" of keel wobble without the spacer pads. I still get a geyser with to much throttle in reverse.

Edit: Loosen and re-torque the hanger bolts at least every year to avoid seizing to the threaded fittings with a big repair. Replace the hanger bolts after a few re-torquings.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The turning ball is included. For everyone's info, here is what the entire kit includes:

A new Keel cable fabricated from type 316 stainless steel cable and a type 316 Stainless steel fork
A keel cable to keel eyebolt clevis pin also made of type 316 stainless
A replacement keel cable hose
Two high quality Swedish hose clamps with a smooth inside surface for tighter clamping
A new keel turning ball
A type 316 stainless steel keel turning ball pin
Note that we use all type 316 stainless steel as it is much more corrosion resistant than the type 304 stainless steel that Catalina Yachts used originally.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2014 : 10:32:26

Just suggesting that you might want to add the eyebolt replacement fitting if you can get the eyebolt out.

Edited by - on

RAG Sailor
Navigator

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USA
144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2014 : 11:14:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 Just suggesting that you might want to add the eyebolt replacement fitting if you can get the eyebolt out.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dave, please explain the eyebolt. Where is it? There are two projects going on: the cable/ assembly and the keel pivot. Which one does the eyebolt belong to? Thanks for your input.

Edited by - on

sailboat
Navigator

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USA
149 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2014 : 13:59:15

We replaced the hangars, pivot pin, and added the spacers. While doing the repair we noticed the current hangars were installed upside down and the pivot pin was bent. The upgrade restored confidence in the system and eliminated the really unnerving keel clunk sound.

Edited by - on

RAG Sailor
Navigator

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USA
144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2014 : 14:47:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sailboat
 We replaced the hangars, pivot pin, and added the spacers. While doing the repair we noticed the current hangars were installed upside down and the pivot pin was bent. The upgrade restored confidence in the system and eliminated the really unnerving keel clunk sound.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Mike, Please describe what you mean by 'hangars". I saw the bottom of my boat once (while she was out for the survey) and don't remember seeing hangars. I'm also looking at the original owner's manual and illustration# 4.6.1 (see picture) shows the whole swing keel assembly and does not mention hangars.

Edited by - RAG Sailor on 01/20/2014 14:49:14

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2014 : 17:42:00

The hangers hold the pin in the hull.

Edited by - on

RAG Sailor
Navigator

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USA
144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2014 : 21:40:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 The hangers hold the pin in the hull.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is very odd. When my boat was lifted out of the water for the survey, the keel was in the down position while the boat was suspended by a crane. I walked right up to the keel and never saw those hangars. I have close up pictures of the keel housing that showed that the update modifications were never done. The pivot was in good condition (but I still want to make the modification as long as I have to pull her out for other maintenance items). There were no holes or what appeared to be missing pieces to the keel. Are you sure the hangars apply to all of the swing keel models? My original owner's manual schematic makes no mention of them nor do they illustrate them. I've also looked on CD and they do not sell any hangars that remotely look like your picture. Very curious!

Edited by - RAG Sailor on 01/20/2014 21:47:36

WesAllen
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 01/20/2014 : 21:54:02

The hangers are the cast parts not the threaded rods. The threaded rods are for lowering the cast brackets that are bolted to the bottom of the hull. Most of the wear will be on the pivot pin and cast iron keel. Excellent picture on how to lower the keel.

Edited by - on

RAG Sailor
Navigator

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USA
144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/21/2014 : 05:52:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by WesAllen
 The hangers are the cast parts not the threaded rods. The threaded rods are for lowering the cast brackets that are bolted to the bottom of the hull. Most of the wear will be on the pivot pin and cast iron keel. Excellent picture on how to lower the keel.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wes, thanks! Now it's clear what I am looking at. Without working on my boat first hand it was hard to understand. Having only seen the underside up close once among many other items that day, my memory didn't serve me we'll.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2014 : 17:34:08

Glad you're straightened out. I posted a description of the eyebolt replacement and other components, but it apparently disappeared into the ether - those darn sub-Planck, interwoven multidimensions.

Edited by - on

RAG Sailor
Navigator

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USA
144 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2014 : 06:34:39

Thanks all! Between the comments here (including pix) and discussing the process with CD's tech support I was able to pull together enough notes for my service guy. I'm ordering the parts today. Now, if only we could get rid of this single digit temp weather. I want to be back on board!

Edited by - on

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