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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Lets Talk paint!

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Jweikel625
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/25/2014 : 07:27:09

I plan to paint my 1980 Catalina SK when it FINALLY gets warm, maybe June at the rate this winter in going!. Presently she has a brown bottom that needs to be stripped and a white top. I want to switch to the New England style dark red bottom, white boot strap, and Navy blue top. My boat is on the hard in Maryland.
So the questions are......
In what order do I paint?? bottom first, top first, boot first??
After sanding, do I need to primer first?
I plan on rolling and tipping, so what is the best paint to use that is not terribly expensive and gives a gloss finish, best for the least$$ ??
Anyone use Jamestown Dist. Total Boat??
How much of each paint will I need, expecting several coats?
Will I need to wax and polish the first season, or just put her in after the paint dries??
Any other suggestions???

1980 SK/SR
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41307503@N06/,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPDZgkSfCVg

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2014 : 07:53:06

Red bottom paint generally turns sorta brown over time (like one season)--if it's a somewhat light brown, that might be what you have.

What is the condition of your tipsides (boot stripe and above)? Dark blue paint over white gelcoat will result in white marks wherever it touches a dock, piling, boat, fender, travel lift strap, etc... Touch-ups will look like scars... Resale will likely be tougher because a painted boat is a sign of trouble, relative to the other unpainted boats out there.

Some people go ahead and do it anyway--a dark blue hull is very pretty. Some of them regret it later (or the later buyers do).

That's my piece... worth no more than you paid for it.

Edited by - on

Jweikel625
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2014 : 08:04:23

Stinkpotter, Is there a better color option, besides boring white? What about types of paint to use? The topside is ok, I am not trying to cover anything up, I just really like that paint scheme. I didn't realize the scuffing and marks that would occur. This is my first time, so thought I would ask the experts!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2014 : 09:25:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jweikel625
 Stinkpotter, Is there a better color option, besides boring white? What about types of paint to use? The topside is ok, I am not trying to cover anything up, I just really like that paint scheme. I didn't realize the scuffing and marks that would occur. This is my first time, so thought I would ask the experts!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">When I bought my C25, I wanted a color other than boring white, and eventually regretted it. If any little damage happens to it, it's extremely difficult to match any color other than white. Thus, if you suffer minor damage, your options are to have the repair done professionally at a prohibitive cost, or do a major repaint job yourself, or live with it as is. It's much easier to match white, and you can probably make minor repairs without having to do a major paint job to make it look good again.

There are positive and negative consequences to painting a boat. For most boat buyers, a boat that is in good shape, and that has never been painted is a plus, because paint can hide alot of flaws. I love that paint scheme, but would not paint it unless it was the only way to repair damage. But, it's your boat. Consider the positives and negatives and then do what pleases you.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2014 : 09:28:27

There are several boats in my marina that have the paint scheme you mentioned. I like they way it looks too but keep in mind if you go with the Navy blue you will probably, at some point, want to change the color of your sail covers and maybe even the interior cushions so they match the topsides. More money, more money, more money!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2014 : 14:14:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jweikel625
 Stinkpotter, Is there a better color option, besides boring white?y<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">There are some reasons why many classic and expensive yachts are "boring white"--mostly having to do with what Steve mentions. My concern has to do with the longer-term effects of paint... It tends to split, scratch, and peel, which leads to attempts to touch it up, which leads to an ugly topography as well as varying colors. Eventually somebody will conclude it needs to be removed to either try to return to gelcoat, or to start over. Removal is a b!tch.

If you really want a new color, the lighter the better, for practical purposes. Pale green, for example, looks nice on boats. Scratches and fading have less effect, and colors are easier to match. Look at some sailing/boating mags. But I'd suggest concentrating on a nice color for some new canvas, cushions, and maybe boot and cove stripes (which you can do with vinyl tape). Gelcoat is your best friend. BTW, I repaired several gouges in my white C-25 some 10 years ago using just white gelcoat patch in a tube. I suspect "Voyager" Bruce Ross (current owner) has yet to notice them.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2014 : 14:49:39

If your main reason for changing colors is you just like the look then you have two alternatives. One is to paint the hull with a good two part paint or strip the gel-coat and replace with a Navy Blue gel-coat. A much better alternative than the paint but much,much more expensive!

If on the other hand you want a nice shiny hull and were just going to change colors while doing "something" to get that shine you have might consider one of these two options. Hire a professional and for about the same amount of money as some really good paint have him/her compound and wax your hull. This would require waxing and buffing every 6 months to a year.

If you wanted to do it yourself, get some Poli-Prep and Poli-Glow and for under $150.00 you can make it shine almost as good as new. This would require touch ups once every year or two depending on how much time the boat spends in the sun and can be done in 1 or 2 hours tops.

Edited by - on

Jweikel625
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2014 : 16:29:45

Thank you all for your opinions, I would have never known all this, which is why I ask. I am on a tight budget, so hiring a painter or changing colors with gelcoat is not feasible. I still need to strip the bottom antifoul coats, so I still need to paint the bottom. But I will leave the top as is or maybe consider a light color change, but other wise getting it all shiny and new looking will work. Money spent better elsewhere!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2014 : 20:23:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jweikel625
 Thank you all for your opinions, I would have never known all this, which is why I ask. I am on a tight budget, so hiring a painter or changing colors with gelcoat is not feasible. I still need to strip the bottom antifoul coats, so I still need to paint the bottom. But I will leave the top as is or maybe consider a light color change, but other wise getting it all shiny and new looking will work. Money spent better elsewhere!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Here's a link to the Poli Glow website with some helpful videos -->> [url="http://www.poliglow-int.com/"]Poli Glow[/url]

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5377 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2014 : 12:01:20

You know? I'm still on the lookout for those gouges and patches S. Potter describes, but I cannot find a single one - truly amazing!!!!

White on white hides a lot of ills and a little detergent & bleach or TSP goes a long way cleaning up your hull and deck above waterline. For boot stripe vinyl tape is excellent as pointed out above and new lettering can change the look for a little money. Once cleaned & freshened up go with Poli-Glow, but remember, any minor flaw (rub, mark, schmutz) on the surface will be permanently preserved, so get them all before applying Poli-Glow.

Bottom paint should be easy if it's ablative and there's little build-up - just wear your protective paper suit, hat and dust mask, lightly sand with 80 grit sandpaper, catch the dust and flakes in a ground tarp, then repaint. Should take a little less than a gallon and one or two weekends. Wait for a windless day to sand.

If there is a substantial build-up or if it's hard paint, you will have to scape down to gelcoat or soda-blast professionally. Once done, you may need a barrier coat, then repaint.

Last year I spent 3 weekends between Poli-Glow and bottom paint which was not bad at all.

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2014 : 12:39:37

I vote for keeping it white. Just buff & wax and you will have cool boat back again.

White is the best. Even when I bought our current new boat, I ordered it in a complete white, even the nonskids. If you will ever strach it (sure you will) then its pretty easy to match and repair.

Btw. Gelcoat is 100% better and durable than any paint. If yours if fine, than buff and wax. If you do it right, you gain a mirror finish with a so much less work than preping for paint. Next the great finish can be done only by a spray => more money to hire an experienced guy. Everything else is bad compromise.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2014 : 12:48:37

A few words on [url="http://www.poliglow-int.com/"]Poly Glow[/url], which I started and Bruce continued on Passage... It's great for an older hull--not quite as bright as wax, but long-lasting and super-easy to apply. The first time takes 4-5 coats to get an even gloss, but the whole job will take something like an hour and a half. You wipe it on, and that's it--no rubbing, no buffing. Each year thereafter, one dress-coat renews the shine--maybe a few more coats to touch up areas where fenders have worn it away. As Bruce said, any marks will be immortalized by PG, so a thorough cleaning is critical.

Aficionados of glassy shines might be disappointed with PG, but to me, a sailboat isn't meant to look like it's made out of glass. Click the pic below--you'll see a slight reflection from the fenders.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/26/2014 13:06:47

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2014 : 14:04:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 ... As Bruce said, any marks will be immortalized by PG, so a thorough cleaning is critical.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I agree with everything Dave said above but I would like clarify for the new guys on the forum that any marks you miss and that get covered by PG are not really permanent. Just a pain in the #$@% to remove after PG has been applied.

Using Poli Strip you can remove the Poli Glow in the affected area and also the mark. Then re-apply Poli Glow and you are good to go.

It's much easier to take a little extra time in the beginning and get it perfect before applying the PG.

Over all it's easier than buffing and waxing and it lasts longer.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2014 : 16:03:29

Ya, I should've said "advised" instead of "critical".

Edited by - on

glivs
Admiral

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USA
836 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2014 : 17:09:44

I know some of the best minds on this forum are PG (or Vertiglas or ...) fans but I've never been convinced although I do not doubt it has its place. Do a quick search in the archives or online but by following a simple protocol you can revive very oxidized gelcoat for a stunning shine in a single weekend. For the ultimate shine you will need to invest in a decent buffer and supplies to essentially sand/polish the gelcoat to a glossy surface. Aiming for a slightly less brilliant look, 1 or 2 good polishings by hand followed by a good cleaning (e.g. using Fleetwax gelcoat cleaner) can dramatically improve a neglected hull. The demands of an annual (here in the north) waxing thereafter are not outrageous although areas subject to greater UV damage may require more frequent attention. Looking at your pics, it appears your boat has been well maintained so you may already be ahead of many in your gelcoat restoration efforts. Good luck.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 01/26/2014 : 17:37:45

Gerry's right that nobody has made much of a case for waxing the hull. My C&C had some chalking when I bought it, so I hired a yard guy to clean and wax it. He got rid of the heavy chalking. After that, I wax it once a year, in the spring, with Meguiar's cleaner wax for boats. It brings it to a mirror gloss. I apply it with a clean, damp cloth and remove it with a Turtle Wax buffer. (about $39.99 at Walmart) It takes less than a day to do a 35' boat.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2014 : 10:33:14

I think most feel that the coatings are best for when gelcoat is thin and wearing out. All waxing involves some abrasion so if the gelcoat still has good depth then waxing is the primo choice, but for some old boats it is Mop'n Glow or nothing. So far I am pleased with VertGlass but might try wax on my little Starwind one of these days.

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Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2014 : 11:50:01

If you don't know about this tips already, check it out http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/52772-tips-compound-polish-wax.html

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 01/29/2014 : 10:47:42

Jeff,
I have a 1978 Swing Keel and had essentially the same problem that you have. I selected to paint my boat dark navy also and do not regret the choice. You're right, 99% of the boats in the marina are white. EVERYBODY comments on the looks of my boat and it really is beautiful. My color scheme is navy topsides, red under body, and white decks (imagine, red, white, and blue - what an unusual combination

)

On the two other objections raised here, yes, painting may cause a resale problem. But a lot of the owners here own boats much newer than ours. At some point the hull plastic just gets too bad to repair without spending more than the cost of the boat. In these cases, painting is a very good, if not the only option.
On the point of marring the blue finish if you slide against a piling, etc. Yes, that does happen. However, I have not found that the touch ups look bad or stand out against the surrounding existing paint. It's a matter of how well you blend the new paint into the old. And there are other techniques, like rewaxing everything, that helps additionally. It also has to do with the quality of paint you start with initially. Some paints fade more than others.

Look at my signature photo for a preview and feel free to contact me with questions.

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