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Winter Cover Question

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CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/18/2013 : 12:14:30

Hello fellow C-25 sailors. We are hauling out "Mysterious" from Lake Winnipesaukee in New HAmpshire next weekend and she will be on the hard for winter. Last year I did a really bad job of covering her with green "industrial" tarps and they flapped around, grommets tore off and the cockpit ended up with an ice block of frozen water that had collected there. This year I am hoping to do better. We completely re-did the bright work and I want to protect it as best I can.

A guy at Kover Klamps...

http://www.koverklampframes.com/boat_cover_framing.html

...is telling me that if water gets into gelcoat or fiberglass cracks and freezes it is like a jack hammer working from the inside out. He said the best way to cover the boat is have a frame (that he sells) and cover it tightly with a cover (that he sells) and clamps (that he sells) every two feet and all tied up with strapping (that he sells). I must say that the clamps (or klamps) as they are called are a very cool design and want to get some, but I am wondering about needing a whole frame.

Care to share your thoughts/ wisdom/ ideas on covering our Catalina 25s over the snowy winter?

Edited by - on

windseaker
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2013 : 12:17:11

shrink rap

Edited by - on

szymek
Navigator

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Canada
209 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2013 : 13:02:59

I had similar question:

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27328

Sources and options for tarps:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27439

Based on the price of canvas cover, I decided to go with tarp. I ended up getting 20x30 heavy duty tarp - 5.5 oz per sq yrd.

If you put your mast down - which is what i did - you have your frame for free.

Tarp is scheduled to arrive next week... but I will put it on, in about 2 weeks.

Shrink wrapping is excellent! Just bit pricey as well.

Edited by - szymek on 10/18/2013 13:14:13

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2013 : 13:37:22

Shrink wrapping does not exist in Kansas, we use tarps.

Edited by - on

glen
Captain

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359 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2013 : 13:56:37

You know the price of a custom cover, and it’s not cheep, but you have not mentioned the type of material he plans to use, some are good some aren’t. Having said that, this is probably about our 17th or maybe 18th Michigan season with our cover. Of course we did get a discount, seeing how we opperate a marine canvas shop. So think about how long you plan to own her, the cover will be custom to her, and sold with her. It is unlikely you will increase your profit because you’re including a cover. It’s a nice selling feature but not much more. Make sure there is plenty of ventilation, and you will want a door. I see a lot of boats with poly covers on them that hold up to nasty winters, so I’m sure there are some good and bad products out there. Look over the thread “Sources for new poly tarps” on the general tab. Chime in there for information on finding a decent one. Poly tarps are notorious for not having enough grommets in them, but you can add more grommets, or you can put a small rubber ball (the size of a golf ball)behind the cover, and tie a line around it, capturing it inside the cover. This trick allows you to create a small round cleat you can connect a tie down to. The better you tie the tarp the better it will hold up Good luck Glen

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2013 : 18:24:46

Koverklamps would probably take you all day to put that system together. A lot of work involved. Then in the spring you get to spend another full day taking it all apart. Then you have to store all the pieces. Shrink wrap was around $400 so yes a custom cover is the most expensive but after having a custom cover now for 4yrs, (This will be the 5th season) Its more than payed for itself. Poly tarps are OK if you are near the boat and can keep an eye on them but not very good if you live miles away from the boat.

Edited by - islander on 10/18/2013 18:29:27

Jweikel625
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2013 : 19:10:48

This will be my first winter as boat owner in Maryland. Is it safe to leave the mast up and raise the boom high enough so that it is the peak of the tent with the sides secured over the sides? But that only covers the cockpit, what is the best way to cover the bow too?

Edited by - on

Jay Schkloven
1st Mate

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USA
84 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2013 : 07:53:08

I have used the heavier gauge blue tarps for years and have not had a problem.
I do not like to use the boom as a tent to give you a little roof over the cockpit. The weight of snow that might build up on the tarp could damage the boom.
I use as many tarps as necessary to cover the cockpit and over the poptop.
I also use duct tape and tape the tarps around the mast. The boom is put inside the boat.
I also use a little foam in the anchor locker opening to keep leaves out so the drain is not blocked. I remove the anchor.
After doing all of this I see lots of boats with NO covering and they seem to weather the winter fine. The key is to keep water out of the boat. You do not want the cockpit to fill and have water enter the boat through the hatch boards.
A number of years ago when we had a heavy snow in Baltimore I did go down to the marina and used a broom to clean off as much snow as possible. A 2 foot snow can add a lot of weight to the boat when it is on a cradle or trailer. It also allowed the sun to melt the remaining snow and the water ran off the boat.

Edited by - on

Poky
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2013 : 08:53:31

Great ideas.

How about interior cushions, etc? Should they be removed too? I have a dryer that I plan to run for the winter. I'm in No Idaho where it should stay close to lows of 20 with ~ 40 inches of snow. I plan to bring all sails & battery home. I'm thinking one tarp for bow, one for cabin, and one tent tarp over boom.

Edited by - on

windseaker
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2013 : 17:24:20

I take my interior cushions inside for the winter they fit under my beds real well. Small critters can find their way into the boat and nest for the winter.

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2013 : 19:06:11

Last season was my first for my C25. I drop the mast (SK on a trailer) and covered it with a 20'x30' tarp from Harbor Freight. It looked great at first, nice and tight but ponded after the first snow. The ponding never leaked into the cockpit so I guess it was a semi-success story. This year I'm going to re-use the tarp but bought another (they are only $45 on sale). I'm going to increase the height of the mast that acts as a ridge beam as well as string a lattice of rope from the mast to the lifelines. The extra support my prevent the ponding. Just my input.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5377 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2013 : 19:58:47

In colder climates, its a good idea to empty out all the cushions, take home most of your gear and clothes, and food items, but leave a few creature comforts and tools on the boat like a flashlight or lantern, a few small seat cushions (type 1 throwables), screwdriver, pliers, etc and maybe even a camp stove or space heater.
I remove all canvas including the bimini, sails and sail covers.
I leave my boom up, and run it up as high as possible. I add an 8' 1"x3" tied parallel to the boom to extend it out over the transom. I take 8 or 10 ft 1" PVC pipe and tie it over-top of the boom every 12" to make a frame. I tie down the pipe ends to make them bend over like a quonsett hut. I add foam rubber to the ends of the pipe and 1x3 to prevent chafe. I cover the frame with a heavy duty silver tarp. I add grommets between the existing ones along the edges, plus I add one for the topping lift, to keep the boom horizontal. I tie the tarp to the mast, but don't use duct tape, since it gums up the metal. Sometimes I cut a slot for the rear lower stays, sometimes not.
This keeps the snow out of the cockpit and off most of the cabintop. I leave the bow open and sweep it or clear the snow as needed. The boat is situated so that the bow points south. I usually keep my solar panel there to keep the battery topped up over the winter. I'm on year 6 of my W*M group 24 battery.
I visit the boat on some weekends to clear snow, hang out and do repairs.

Edited by - Voyager on 10/19/2013 20:03:44

CarbonSink62
Navigator

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USA
208 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2013 : 04:58:27

Shrink wrapping at my club is $19/ft; there is no way that is happening.

I make a frame out of 1x3" strapping and cover it with a tarp. It took 2 days last fall, but I expect to knock it together faster this year; the pieces are all cut and I marked them.

I leave my mast up and use the boom for the 'ridge pole' over the cockpit. I use a crutch at the aft end of the boom so the backstay clip/topping lift never sees the weight.

I'll try to get pics this time.

Ken

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2013 : 08:55:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 ...I remove all canvas including the bimini, sails and sail covers.
I leave my boom up, and run it up as high as possible. I add an 8' 1"x3" tied parallel to the boom to extend it out over the transom. I take 8 or 10 ft 1" PVC pipe and tie it over-top of the boom every 12" to make a frame. I tie down the pipe ends to make them bend over like a quonsett hut. I add foam rubber to the ends of the pipe and 1x3 to prevent chafe. I cover the frame with a heavy duty silver tarp. I add grommets between the existing ones along the edges, plus I add one for the topping lift, to keep the boom horizontal. I tie the tarp to the mast, but don't use duct tape, since it gums up the metal. Sometimes I cut a slot for the rear lower stays, sometimes not...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I feel like a picture or two would be worth another thousand words...

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2013 : 14:39:46

My friend just bought a beautiful custom cover for his boat, a Cape Dory, about 31', for about $1400. from http://shipshapecovers.com/frameless_winter_covers.php. I don't know whether a cover for a C25 would cost less. The cover fits perfectly. That price is waaaay less than the prices quoted by boat show vendors.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2013 : 14:57:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 ...http://shipshapecovers.com/frameless_winter_covers.php...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I see they mention Top Gun fabric--it's a great, low-stretch canvas--I have it for side and back curtains on Sarge. The person who made them said it was much better for tightly fitted canvas than Sunbrella. Seven seasons later, I can't argue with that.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5377 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2013 : 15:13:35

I should have some photos around Thanksgiving

Edited by - on

glen
Captain

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359 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 06:36:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 ...http://shipshapecovers.com/frameless_winter_covers.php...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I see they mention Top Gun fabric--it's a great, low-stretch canvas--I have it for side and back curtains on Sarge. The person who made them said it was much better for tightly fitted canvas than Sunbrella. Seven seasons later, I can't argue with that.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Top Gun is a very good material, but if you use a coated polyester fabric like that for your winter cover (like I do) you need to make sure the fabricator installs vents in it. Dave I know that you weren’t suggesting Sunbrella for use as a winter cover, but so no one is confused. (IMOHO)Sunbrella should never be used as a winter cover. First off the material does not hold up to the wind flagging it around, and secondly if it pockets snow and ice it will stretch and retain the pocket, what we call a goose egg.

Edited by - on

pastmember
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Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 08:46:45

My little West Marine (Caframo I think) "dehumidifier" keeps the inside of my boat nice and dry all winter so I leave everything onboard.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 09:54:00

I also leave all my stuff on the boat during the winter but that is because I also go out sailing when the weather permits during the winter (~ 40F or higher and sun is out). I have a custom cover that covers most of the topsides. It tapers toward the bow and so the forward end is about 60% covered. I usually only have the cover on when snow is predicted in excess of 3-4", otherwise, I leave it off. If it is on, snow accumulates on it but good weather is predicted afterwards, I will brush off the snow/ice and then remove the cover the next day and go sailing. During winter months in the Potomac River region, there may be a period of about a month that ice forms in the river and so I would have to wait till that clears but as often as not, there are winters when no ice forms.
I get away with leaving my stuff onboard because I am frequently down to the boat and air it our and I have an EvaDry 500 dehumidifier which you plug into the outlet at home to dry out the crystals and then after a week or two use, the crystals change from pink to blue (or was it blue to pink ?) according to the color key code on the side of the dehumidifier and then I bring it back home and plug it in overnight to dry it out and return it to the boat. I ahve done this for almost 8 years and no musty smell or mildew issues.

Edited by - OLarryR on 10/21/2013 20:02:24

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 09:55:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 I also leave all my stuff on the boat during the winter but that is because I also go out sailing when the weather permits during the winter (~ 40F or higher and sun is out). I have a custom cover that covers most of the topsides. It tapers toward the bow and so the forward end is about 60% covered. I usually only have the cover on when snow is predicted in excess of 3-4", otherwise, I leave it off. If it is on, snow accumulates on it but good weather is predicted afterwards, I will brush off the snow/ice and then remove the cover the next day and go sailing. During winter months in the Potomac River region, there may be a period of about a month that ice forms in the river and so I would have to wait till that clears but as often as not, there are winters when no ice forms.
I get away with leaving my stuff onboard because I am frequently down to the boat and air it out and I have an AirDry dehumidifier which you plug into the outlet at home to dry out the crystals and then after a week or two use, the crystals change from pink to blue (or was it blue to pink ?) according to the color key code on the side of the dehumidifier and then I bring it back home and plug it in overnight to dry it out and return it to the boat. I have done this for almost 8 years and no musty smell or mildew issues.

Edited by - on

CateP
Navigator

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USA
108 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 12:12:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 I have a custom cover that covers most of the topsides. It tapers toward the bow and so the forward end is about 60% covered.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OLarryR--where did you get your custom cover? It looks great.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 20:13:24

Thanks ! The PO had it made up and it came with my boat when I bought it in OCT 2005. It has a tag on it - Appears to have been made locally at Potomac Sailmakers. From the look of it and the way it fits around the fittings, I suspect the cover was made after taking measurementws directly off the boat. The cover looks just as it did back then.

By the way - I corrected the name of the dehumidifier I use - It's an EvaDry 500. Here is the link to it's product page: http://www.eva-dry.com/products/eva-dry-500-mini-dehumidifier/

Here is 2 addl photos of the cover:

Edited by - OLarryR on 10/21/2013 20:24:59

ronkmarsh
Deckhand

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Canada
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Response Posted - 10/27/2013 : 05:33:22

i've heard from those who know better than me...that shrink wrapping doesn't allow the boat to breath over the course of the winter...as the temperature rises and drops. Condensation levels go crazy and water forms all over the interior...again..just what i've been told. I tarped my boat this year from the forward hatch to the cockpit...i'm anxious to check on it over the course of the next few months and see how it survives.

cheers,

ron

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 10/27/2013 : 07:48:55

A lot of people blame topside blisters on shrink wrap.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 10/27/2013 : 08:13:08

WM sells a great little heater with a setting that will keep the interior just above freezing. When you go to the boat, just increase the setting and it warms up the boat interior very quickly. If you don't have a solar/battery powered vent, get one and make sure it is not covered up by tarping. That device will keep condensation from forming inside.

Edited by - on

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