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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Experience with Bottom Paints

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David Scott
1st Mate

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USA
74 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/26/2014 : 21:37:31

I am ready to bottom paint my 89 C25. It has an epoxy hull and has never had bottom paint before. I plan to keep the boat in fresh water but will have occasional salt water stays for months at a time. I am out of touch with newer paints other then V17. Ablative paint makes the most sense as boat will be stored on trailer some of the time. Has any one used Pettit Hydocoat, West Marine HCT, ot others that they would recommend or not recommend? And any advise to prepare my epoxy hull in preparation to painting would be apppreciated....Thanks, Dave

Dave Scott 89wk/sr #5973

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2014 : 05:40:12

first, does it NEED bottom paint: that depends on the length of time it stays in the water.

I will follow with interest as well, but it would seem that a hard paint would be better for a trailer, as ablative would be scrubbed off moving to/from trailer????

As for type, check locally with the people sailling in the location(s). For Lake Michigan (Muskegon) VC17 is king.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2014 : 09:11:18

The problem with hard paint (at least Pettit Trinidad SR, which is what I use) is that once out of water, it gets too hard, and won't allow water to penetrate to the copper substrate so it can leach into the surrounding water as a bio-toxin.

As an experiment, the last time I did this, I deliberately didn't scuff & paint my rudder, just to see what happened, and because it's an easy fix. It definitely fouls faster than the rest of the boat (but not fast enough that I've bothered to pull it, do a scuff coat & repaint...).

If I pull SL out, it has to be with the knowledge that if she doesn't go back into the water w/in about 2 weeks, I have to do a coat of paint, which involves doing a scuff coat, which is a lot of work.

Edited by - delliottg on 01/27/2014 09:14:20

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2014 : 09:13:02

Ablative paint is like a coat of asphalt on your hull, heavy, rough and ugly. VC 177 is barely a breath of paint which adds no weight, is perfectly smooth and can be power washed on retrieval and repainted in an hour with no sanding and no bio issues. The ease of ownership of VC 17 is the greatest benefit but most people focus on its performance aspect so they discount it as good paint. Most people at my club who have a clue use VC 17 regardless of whether they care about performance or not. It is the ease of maintenance that makes it the slam dunk. My '89 had the same factory barrier coat and it would have been a travesty to put anything other than VC 17 on it. People who don't use it just do not understand. People who do use it do not own dust masks or tyvek suits, and getting ready to paint the boat involves waiting until it is warm enough and you have a spare hour. Oh and it drys ready to launch in MINUTES and does not care about time on the hard. I paint on the trailer at my house then hang the boat from our crane straps to paint where the trailer had prohibited painting and then am in the water after drying in the sling for a few minutes. I buy mine from Defender.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2014 : 18:35:23

Nothing against VC-17, but I started using Hydrocoat SR (in salt water) and very much appreciate working with a water-based paint, for all the obvious reasons. It's worked great against animal & plant growth. I also get it at Defender, at their March warehouse sale about 10 minutes from here.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 01/27/2014 18:36:37

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2014 : 20:24:27

I've got nothing against VC-17 either, except it sucks as a bottom paint if you're in water where you can get fouling. My boat came with VC-17 on it, and it was OK for a year in the water. We put on another coat and left it in the water for more like 1-1/2 years. Very bad idea. If you're going to be in the water for more than a few months you've got a very nasty job ahead of you. I'm into my third year in the water with Pettit Trinidad SR and the only place I have appreciable fouling is on the bottom of my keel. I dove on my boat this past summer, and even where my trailer pads didn't get paint, the hull is still clear.

Frank's got a point, if your boat's out of the water frequently where you can power wash it down, VC-17 is fabulous, easy to maintain, easy to reapply, etc. However, if your boat stays in the water year 'round, you want something else.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 01/27/2014 : 21:40:40

I have been using WM's CPP with pretty good results. I spend 2-3 months in saltwater, but it is winter on the FL panhandle and the water is cold. I have had two barnacles in all the years I've been doing this and no soft growth in these low fouling conditions. Summers on Lake Erie usually produces some easily scrubbed weed growth near the waterline, especially if Pearl sits for more than two weeks. WM HCT, I just checked, is not recommended for out of water boats. I will probably change to a copolymer that is OK for trailering since the soft paints are heavy and rough, I just need to work up the energy for the bottom prep for the change.

Edited for errors d/t lack of updated knowledge.
Hydrocoat, Micron Extra and PCA Gold are multi-season copolymers that only need a light sanding or vigorous scrubbing before relaunching after trailer storage.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 01/27/2014 22:11:23

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2014 : 06:06:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 The problem with hard paint (at least Pettit Trinidad SR, which is what I use) is that once out of water, it gets too hard, and won't allow water to penetrate to the copper substrate so it can leach into the surrounding water as a bio-toxin....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
True of most hard paints, but not all. Pettit Vivid is a hybrid paint that is harder than ablative, but maintains its effectiveness after being out of the water. It has tested pretty well in Practical Sailor's tests, but its suitability may vary depending on the area that your boat is in.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5904 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2014 : 06:58:01

Each type of paint has certain qualities that make it a better choice for you, depending on how you intend to use it.

Hard finish paints are better for more serious racers. They're faster and smoother, but, if you want to keep them clean and fast throughout the sailing season, you have to scrub the bottom regularly. After applying hard paints for several years, there will be a thick build-up of paint on the bottom, and eventually it will begin to peel, similar to peeling paint on a house. When that happens, the only good remedy is to strip it all off, and that's a really nasty job, requiring hard work.

Ablative paints are a soft paint. IMO, they're a better choice for people who aren't serious racers. The general concept of ablative paints is that they gradually erode. That means they are much less likely to cause a thick build-up of paint over the years, as long as you don't put on too much each year. I use one coat per year of WM's PCC Gold on my C&C 35, which is a good quality ablative. If it begins to get too thick after a few years, it's much easier to remove, because it is so soft. With ablative paint, my bottom stays reasonably clean during the season without scrubbing it, and it is fast enough to be reasonably competitive in beer can racing.

Just so you know that I'm not biased for or against either type of paint, I will be buying a Cal 25 to race this spring, and I'll use a hard finish paint for racing it. The bottom has been recently stripped, so I won't have to strip it again any time soon. I'll have a diver scrub it regularly, to keep it clean and fast.

Either type of paint will work reasonably well for most uses, but, depending on how you use the boat, one type will work better for you than the other.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/28/2014 07:01:06

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4306 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2014 : 12:15:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 ... I use one coat per year of WM's PCC Gold on my C&C 35, which is a good quality ablative. If it begins to get too thick after a few years, it's much easier to remove, because it is so soft...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Wow, seems like 1 coat per year is over-kill. I'm at 7 years on my bottom paint...

...then again, that might be why I can't get over 4-1/2 knots in a 15 knot wind!!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5904 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2014 : 13:35:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 ... I use one coat per year of WM's PCC Gold on my C&C 35, which is a good quality ablative. If it begins to get too thick after a few years, it's much easier to remove, because it is so soft...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Wow, seems like 1 coat per year is over-kill. I'm at 7 years on my bottom paint...

...then again, that might be why I can't get over 4-1/2 knots in a 15 knot wind!!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The first two coats of antifouling that I applied after I stripped the bottom were blue. Since then, I have used red. Usually, when the boat is hauled at the end of the season, I can see a slight tinge of blue showing through, so, after one season, not much of one coat of the ablative antifouling is left.

Seven years seems like an awfully long time between bottom painting, but, if you're having fun with the boat, it's hard to justify crouching under the boat caked with sweat and toxic sanding dust.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4306 Posts

Response Posted - 01/28/2014 : 13:46:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 ... I use one coat per year of WM's PCC Gold on my C&C 35, which is a good quality ablative. If it begins to get too thick after a few years, it's much easier to remove, because it is so soft...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Wow, seems like 1 coat per year is over-kill. I'm at 7 years on my bottom paint...

...then again, that might be why I can't get over 4-1/2 knots in a 15 knot wind!!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Seven (7) years IS a long time. I was poking fun at myself for waiting so long to do the bottom. When I pulled the boat for a quick-haul a couple of years ago they said I needed to do a bottom job at that time.

I will probably sail the boat "as is" this spring until it starts getting hot and then I'll probably put it on the trailer for the summer months. When I get ready to put it back in when the weather starts cooling off I'll have a bottom job done.

This will give me time to polish the hull and do other maintenance that I've been putting off for quite some time. I can do it in the shade in front of my house and when I get too hot I can just walk inside and cool off.

Besides, if you wait as long as I do the ablative has worn down and there's not as much to scrape off!

Edited by - GaryB on 01/28/2014 13:51:20

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