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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Berths: Bow-stern alignment

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indecentseas
1st Mate

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Canada
67 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/04/2014 : 00:21:02

Winter time is ideal for dreaming about my next boat.

One of my least favoured aspects of my beloved Catalina 25 is the sleeping orientation in the main cabin. It's great that I have room (just) for a queen size bed but I find sleeping left to right is all wrong. Sleeping in the quarter berth is much better. It feels like I am being rocked to sleep.

I notice that many larger boats don't necessarily have their beds aligned bow-stern. In fact, the rear cabin is more often than not aligned left-right.

Am I alone in seeing the appeal of a bed aligned with the direction of the boat? Or is this less of a concern on a larger boat? I'd appreciate the experience of those of you who have over-nighted on other boats. Does the small size of my boat, or perhaps the swing keel make the boat

Further to that, I have never bothered to use the v-berth for sleeping. I find it dark, dank, and too small. It's too bad because that berth would offer some much needed privacy. Are v-berths on longer boats (in the 30-33 foot range) more desirable? I've done a little web surfing and have not found much detail about the dimensions of various v-berths.

David Hopkins
Vancouver, British Columbia
'78 Swing Keel, Standard Rig, Dinette
#534

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2014 : 04:21:54

Great post dave! We moved to an Oday 28. The V-beth there is much roomier, but we still tangle feet at times. Larger boats increase the anchor locker, and thus the v-berth moves aft providing more room.

I agree on forward aft position, and i believe that is an at sea preference as well for most.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2014 : 04:23:45

Having spent many nights (25 years in the Royal Navy) on board with bunks fore-n-aft and bunks athwartships, IMHO, no difference.

On JD, with our table lowered the V-berth is huge, a crawl to get in and out, but it's easier than getting in and out of the aft berth. I'm sure kids would be happy campers in the aft berth.

But then, we have a C250.

Paul

Edited by - on

mrapkins
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2014 : 06:42:33

I agree that the C25 is, in fact, awful for sleeping for real people. The brochure shows a comfy v berth which is in fact too small for most people - and who wants to sleep with their head 18 inches from a toilet that someone may need to use during the night?

The quarterberth (where I sleep) is great for one person but who wants to sleep under the cockpit sole with barely 18 inches of "headroom"? And what if they want to get up in the night?

I can't really see more than 2 folks spending 7 nights onboard with any degree of comfort - or the ability to store enough clothes and food and cold drinks.

I would dearly love to have a boat where there is a dedicated cabin for comfortable sleeping, one where you don't have to put away the bedding away every morning.

I love my C25 dearly for sailing, but the "comforts of home" will remain there - at home.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2014 : 09:59:20

That is why I and the next owner of Lutra both moved up to boats in the 30' range. There is a lot more comfortable sleeping room and storage spaces. The storage spaces become really important as you start cruising for more than a week. My Pearson 28-2 must have 3x the storage volume of the Catalina 25 (which really only had enclosed space under the aft dinette bench and V-berth), and none of it is open to the bilge.

Our Pearson 28-2 has a similar half-under quarterberth to the Catalina 25, but there is a wide bridgedeck which provides a headroom to the person who is under the cockpit. This makes it a lot more useful and it is our preferred double bunk. The V-berth is a little bigger than the Catalina 25's and has way more headroom, which also makes it more comfortable.

There were many other creature comforts in moving up 3.5' in length and 1.8' in beam besides the extra space. Our Pearson has onboard heat, pressurized water, a cooler that actually works, chart storage, and wiring that is easier to service and manage. Downsides are greater expenses in initial purchase and ongoing costs (sails are 33% bigger, inboards cost a lot more than outboards), but overall it has been worth it.

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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2014 : 16:33:13

I concur on your sentiment about berth alignment and boat rocking. We sleep our family of seven on our boat but only for a weekend. We feel lucky to have her and have fun making do but something bigger would be nice and will have to wait a bit.

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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1803 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2014 : 11:16:08

Size and age of crew has a lot to do as far as sleeping comfort goes. The v berth is marginal but ok -- I am 6'2" and can fit but getting in and out is better suited for an athletic teenager. Proximity to the head is a drawback on any smaller boat -- including some larger classic plastic designs by the likes of Alberg, Luders, Rhodes, etc. The quarter-berth is the best for overall convenience and comfort. However, I at least use the boat for daysailing and an occasional overnight for two adults. If I were looking for a boat for serious cruising I would look for something in the 30 foot plus range and focus as much on interior ergonomics as sail-ability.

Edited by - bigelowp on 02/08/2014 11:16:48

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2014 : 10:29:25

A majority of even larger boats have forward heads, which means your own head when sleeping is still that silly 15 inches away, but you have a bulkhead and a door separating you.

Our C34 has an aft head, which is very convenient when sailing, since it's in the middle of the boat, so motion is less, plus it's as far away as possible from both the aft cabin (athwartships sleeping) and the V berth.

The only way to get measurements of V berths on boats is to find the brochures and scale them off. Our C34 has a HUGE V berth. We love it.

Had a C22 for many years, slept athwartships on that since the V berth was tiny, we made a plywood filler. We had our C25 for 12+ years (traditional) and put the table up. I liked the quarterberth, sometimes we shared the main cabin, sometimes I used the V berth - depended on who was on board.

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OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3494 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2014 : 16:16:21

There is no doubt that that the Cat 25 has compromises in the sleeping arrangements onboard but there are many that make frequent overnighters and some that have reported sleeping onboard for many consecutive nights. I think every sailboat has it's pro/con in regards to cruising vs racing, sleeping arrangements, height and spaciousness of the cabin, steering wheel or not, inboard or outboard, galley arrangements, draft and trailerability. The fact that so many Cat 22s and Cat 25s are out there is testament that for many, these Cats hit the sweet spot for what they desire in a sailboat. But there will always be those thoughts: Should I go for a larger boat ? or for some, Should I downsize ? Family sailing, family size or no family sailing, I am sure also plays a role in all of this.

I know when I had my 1980 ODay 23, which I bought new at the time, it was so large and heavy compared to the 13' Banshee and 16' Luger that I owned before getting married. But I had a desire for a boat that had a cabin for overnighters, a porta-potti and a galley (okay on the ODay 23 they were on sliders with the sink, a pull-out above the starboard aft bunk and the alcohol stove on a pull-out above the port side aft bunk). Most of all, I desired a sailboat that kept us dry from waves/white-caps breaking on the bow. The days of getting soaked to the bone were past me - The ODay 23 was the "perfect sailboat"...for me...back then ! After 5 years with the ODay and then moving from NY to DC area and with then 2 kids, etc relatives/friends out of town to visit, we sold the boat and our focus was different for many years until I then bought our Cat 25 at a different stage of our lives. The Cat 25 had a permanent galley set-up, overall larger, more comfortable and higher cabin and had a pop-top which we opened during some of our overnighters. But with these improvements, there were the compromises which most boats in the 25' size deal with: The sleeping arrangements forward and perhaps a few other things.

A move to a larger boat, say a 30', defintely will have it's benefits over a 25' sailboat. The sleeping arrangements are better, galley is generally larger as well. A 30' will generally have an inboard (more horsepower than the 9.9hp) and a steering wheel but then there are some that desire a nav station and a shower/head and some 30' sailboats have that but then that's the reason to push to a 32 footer, etc. The negative for some as you get a larger sailboat besides more expensive dock fees and maintenance is that the draft of these boats will be significantly greater. But these factors may not be important vs the extra creature comforts. Another thing to consider as the size goes up, that one may be less inclined to go out solo vs with company when handling a larger boat. Many still may oftentimes go solo even in a larger boat but just that one may tend not to go single handed as often in a larger sailboat vs a Cat 25 (or smaller) unless others are going as well. Then again, that could be a benfit since a larger boat can accomodate more individuals and may attract more guests to be on a nice large sailboat.

Just so many factors to consider. Yes there are the sleeping arrangements and etc creature comforts...and probably can walk forward and aft on the deck easier as well due to the increased width !!

I guess for me, it comes down to the fact that I do not do that many overnighters and I do not think I would increase all that much in overnighters even if I had a larger sailboat. The fact is that 90% of my sailing is single-handed and with relatively shallow waters in the upper Potomac River, the Cat 25 turns out to be the sweet spot vs going with a larger sailboat that I definitely would like it's attributes but not the ease that I sail single-handedly with a wing keel of only 2' 11", less dock fees and maintenance costs. Perhaps, if I was sailing on the Chesapeake, I would think differently.

So, sticking with my Cat 25, I have made many improvements including an extended side bunk, hinged table, fans, etc that make the few overnighters very enjoyable. I sleep in the quarterberth and my spouse likes the extended bunk. I compare it to camping. We enjoy camping but sleeping onboard the Cat 25 is definitely an improvement, that is, compared to camping in a tent and in sleeping bags on a 1" padded cushion.

It really comes down to your situation. While one may indicate the weakness of the Cat 25 regarding sleeping arrangements, when a friend from work goes on overnighters with his spouse in his Gloucester 20, they wind up coming over to spend time with us on our boat, watch a movie on a laptop, etc and sometimes remark how large the cabin is and how it's the perfect size for sailing and overnighters on our waters !

It's quite normal to seek a larger boat to overcome deficiencies presently faced with....Just a question relative to what size boat you presently have and what you desire when it's time to move up...or down as the case may be.

Edited by - OLarryR on 02/14/2014 16:19:01

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