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CJRoxs
Navigator

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USA
114 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/04/2014 : 09:14:52

My purchase of Lily did not include a trailer. I want to buy one or build one but, I have never seen one other then in pictures. Does a WB sit on a WK trailer ok? I'm told the WK sits on the keel but the WB sits on her haul. Also, can you purchase one from Catalina?

S/V Lily
1995 Catalina 250WB
Honda 9.9 Four Stroke
RCYC
Portland, OR

Edited by - on

Dave Brown
Navigator

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USA
174 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2014 : 10:10:06

Sir,
Wing K., and Water B. boats go on different trailers.
One should not use one for another.
This to me is one of the best things about Catalina,
The trailers fit the boats. If you need a trailer for
a water B. boat, Then buy a Water B. trailer, made from Catalina, and you'll be a happy man.
I, as well as others have seen people work for Hr,s trying to put a boat on a trailer that did,nt fit.
Go down to the boat ramp, take a chair with you, Its amazing just what one can learn.

That,s my 2 cent,s

Dave B. #411
________________/)_______________/)))______________________
.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2014 : 10:58:52

I think trail-Rite makes the trailers for the 250.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2014 : 12:08:54

To add a little to what has been offered, keel boat trailers most often are equipped with pads that are adjusted to the hull to hold the boat balanced on the keel rest, whereas trailers for center board boats usually have bunk boards to support the boat. Bunk board trailers are designed to mold to a given hull form so are not generally interchangeable.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2014 : 15:07:54

http://www.trailrite.com/

Edited by - on

CJRoxs
Navigator

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USA
114 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2014 : 07:08:15

The reason for my question is I have a friend who has a 250WK and said I could borrow his trailer to change out the centerboard shims. My plans are to buy a proper trailer in a year or so. However, the shims need to be replaced now.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2014 : 10:45:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 To add a little to what has been offered, keel boat trailers most often are equipped with pads that are adjusted to the hull to hold the boat balanced on the keel rest, whereas trailers for center board boats usually have bunk boards to support the boat. Bunk board trailers are designed to mold to a given hull form so are not generally interchangeable.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">If a WK boat (which has the same shape hull and is reinforced at the same points as a WB boat) can sit on a trailer with pads, why can't a WB boat sit on a trailer with pads while the shims are replaced? I don't recall having seen a C250 being stored on the hard, but, can't that same WB boat be stored on the hard on a cradle with pads and without bunkboards, or on jackstands with pads? Can't a WB C250 be stored on the hard with jackstands, and without bunkboards? How is a C250 WB stored on the hard, if you don't have a trailer?

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2014 : 11:10:48

I use jack stands to store my WK on the hard. The vast majority of the weight rests on a 6x6 block of wood on the ground under the keel. The stands are basically there to keep the boat from tipping over. The two rear stands do support some weight. Those two stands and the keel form a tripod that fully balances the boat in calm conditions. The other stands are redundant support for stability against the wind and earthquake (which happened once a few years ago).

I suspect that a WK trailer is designed a similar way - most of the weight on the keel support, and pads engineered to keep it from tipping, with their design loads, location, and orientation to minimize sideways tipping forces from turning and braking, instead of supporting the full downward weight of the boat.

A WB boat would be lighter, but the pads may still not be designed to hold the boat up without significant keel support. Without bunk boards to support the weight of the boat, the pads could be pushed out and buckle due to the boat's weight and the outward force vector at the top of their lever arm.

I have no experience with this (aside from my own boat's jackstands). I am just speaking from my knowledge of engineering mechanics.

My boat stands get considerable strength from the chains that hold them together, preventing them from being pushed aside by the outward force vector. I am not sure if a similar arrangement could be made for the trailer pads.

Edited by - TakeFive on 02/06/2014 11:11:36

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2014 : 12:40:57

I understand that C25s and C250s are different, but I lowered my keel support many times on my much heavier fin keel C25 while on it's roller type trailer, so that it's full weight was resting on little rollers. Then I left it hanging there for days while I painted it and repaired the keel, etc.

Looking at the photo of Henk's trailer. for example, if there was a pad on top of each of the three upright supports on each side of the trailer, instead of bunk boards, it looks like a boat would be adequately supported.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should use a trailer to haul a boat over the road that isn't fitted properly to the boat, but I'm trying to understand why a WK trailer wouldn't adequately support his WB boat long enough to replace the centerboard shims.

As always, Catalina knows their boats and Trailrite trailers far better than all of us, and CJRoxs would probably be well advised to seek their advice. It only takes a phone call.

Edited by - on

CJRoxs
Navigator

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USA
114 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2014 : 12:25:52

Steve, funny you should suggest that. I just got a quote from Trail Rite. However, I need to talk to them before doing anything, as I want to add a few things.

Also, it seems that the WB only weighs 1800 empty. A good portion of the weight should only be on the pads until the ballast drains. Figuring 3 pads each side, that's 300 lbs. average per pad. Add another 1200 for gear and you have 500 lbs. per pad. Now if you designed it with 8 pads the extra ballast weight shouldn't be a problem. My basic engineering degree is not for hire. Comments?

CJ

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2014 : 12:57:23

JMTCW My 95' WB completely emptied of gear, motor, battery, fuel tank on the trailrite trailer with the mast laid down weighed in somewhere around 5000 pds on a calibrated scale but still attached to my truck. I think I recall the 250 WB weighs 2400 pds empty. Truck was not on the scale.

Edited by - on

CJRoxs
Navigator

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USA
114 Posts

Response Posted - 02/07/2014 : 14:59:08

You are correct. I was thinking of my 22'. That being said, the manual lists the wet weight at 3600. That would mean 4800 with 1200 lbs. of gear. That means on a 6 pad trailer there would be 800 lbs. per pad or 5.56 lbs. per square inch. (12 x 12 pad). On a 8 pad trailer that's 600 lbs. per pad or 4.17 lbs. per inch. Am I figuring this correctly?

Edited by - CJRoxs on 02/07/2014 14:59:58

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2014 : 07:18:13

JMTCW Trailrite may have changed there support system for 250 WB, but my 95 trailrite trailer has one bunkboard that the centerboard rests on and two other bunkboards the hull rests on about 6' long each of the bunk boards.

Edited by - on

CJRoxs
Navigator

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USA
114 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2014 : 13:18:59

Only 6'? I thought they looked longer on Zeil's pics. You must have a different trailer. What year is your boat/trailer?

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2014 : 14:13:07

That could be, I know I changed the 3 of them out and recovered them. It is a 95, dual wheel trailrite. It's setting in about 3' of snow right now. I'm sure somebody else will pipe in.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2014 : 22:13:34

Perhaps this will answer some questions
1995 Trailrite trailer
Note Reversible spare wheel
Boat side guides
Centre board guides
Bunks with felt type covering
The open, galvanized heavy duty frame, is easy to wash-down and if shows any rust, around bolts etc., we use a liquid galvanizing spray containing 95% zinc which is self sacrificing and keeps the trailer in top shape

Hitch extension friction fits between bunk-uprights and frame with felt pads

Edited by - zeil on 02/08/2014 22:15:45

CJRoxs
Navigator

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USA
114 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2014 : 23:05:27

Are those bunks really only 6'? They look a lot longer. Also, can you tell me the overall length of the trailer?

Edited by - CJRoxs on 02/08/2014 23:07:59

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 02/09/2014 : 10:13:38

Although not measured the wood bunks are about 9 to 10ft long (3x3 plus overhang) covered by rot-proof felt.

The overall length of the trailer, without boat, is about 25ft long. With boat the overall length of boat and trailer from tongue to stern is about 30ft overall.

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2014 : 08:15:29

Great trailer Henk!

Edited by - on

slaedlein
1st Mate

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USA
51 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2014 : 20:28:15

One suggested mod for anyone with a WB - extend the center bunk to the end of the trailer. That eliminates any chance of the centerboard hanging up when launching.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2014 : 00:40:41

Very much applaud the idea to extend the centre board bunk to the end of the trailer.

This is what happened to us, after spending several hours making the boat launch-ready, when the up-haul cable suddenly snapped during launching...

Okay... out she comes again... now what?? Hate to go through all that work again of taking everything including the mast down and look for a, most likely costly, marina lift. Next best option was, park the trailer with boat and all on the parking lot, run to town to purchase a sheet of plywood which we had cut in halve and find out if that would work... It did... it was not only more economical but avoided having to go through the entire procedure of take-down and set-up again

Made some cut-outs to fit the guide up-rights which also held the front in place

Strapped both sheets to the trailer preventing it from floating up while launching. Once the boat was launched it was essential to push the boat around to eliminate the center board from getting stuck in the grooves of the ramp. The cable was replaced by a local diver. Fixing the cable while the boat is floating proved to be much more economical than sitting on the trailer.

Edited by - on

CJRoxs
Navigator

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USA
114 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2014 : 06:59:09

Good info Gentlemen. This gives me a lot to think about. FYI I contacted Trail Rite and got a quote of $5165 for their standard trailer.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2014 : 14:01:50

Great Idea Henk, we have snagged the rear trailer beam with our centerboard before.. very fast learn on the importance of ensuring the keel is up tight before moving the boat over the trailer.

When I get the chance, I'm going to add a 'ramp' for the bow too! Getting the bow up to the raised bow bunk is risky (your's is a roller, ours is a bunk). So a Ramp would allow us to keep the bow bunk in the raised position while cranking the bow up to the stops.

Paul

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2014 : 18:02:18

Paul, I like the bow bunk idea a lot. Often wondered what would happen if the bow roller would let go... seems like a weak point. However it held for for many, many miles and years. We noticed that it is next to impossible to get the bow to snuggle into the trailer's stop. It does help to stop, if the ramp is not busy, a little up the ramp with the stern still in the water and crank the boat further up. After driving a little way the boat seems to shift forward and snuggles into the trailer's bow stop.

A little frustrated Johanna asked... oh rats, now what... do we have to do the take-down and set-up all over again after we locate a place to lift the boat and repair the up-haul cable... it may well be a coupe of days before launching again.

This is the (Vectra?) up-haul cable as provided by West Marine in San Diego... it is said to be stronger than a stainless steel cable

Off we went sailing again. (lust love this wood mural)

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2014 : 04:32:51

I've experienced two instances of cable failure with one where I needed to get the boat off the trailer. The plywood technique is a good idea albeit as mentioned, it may leave the board vulnerable to dealing with ridges on the boat ramp if they exist.

The technique I used was to sling the board, accomplished by a rope sling prepared around the stern before backing into water and working the sling forward once the stern floated. It requires backing down to a point just before the board is released from the bunk.

IIRC, it took about 15-20 minutes of effort at the ramp, so if the ramp has a waiting line, the plywood would provide the quicker launch. The sling method would avoid ramp ridges that might damage the board or prevent the boat from backing fully to a floating position.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2014 : 20:14:33

Thank you Arlyn for offering an alternate method of dealing with broken center board cables.

When our cable snapped while the boat floated off the trailer and suddenly stopped we had that awful sinking feeling... now what!!

First, we tried to sling a line from the bow but quickly realized that the center board guides would stop the line going further aft... so we cranked the boat back on its bunks.

Then, we tried to feed the line from the stern. In fact I jumped into the water and tried to feed the line forward by half diving below the boat but realized that, without a second person on the opposite side, it would be to no avail.

Johanna was in the truck. I dared not call on her for help. Nor did I dare to crawl and grope blindly under the boat to guide the line further forward while the truck/trailer was on a steep slope. This, to me, spelled danger!!

Had we, like you mentioned in your outline, backed the boat to the point of just floating off the bunks, we probably would have succeeded. While doing this procedure one must make absolutely sure that the bow strap is still attached.

Having the center board bounce on the ramp is not the best to say the least but... given this unhappy circumstance using plywood was our only solution apart from hours and hours of taking down and rebooting.

The question remains why, in the first place, did our cable snap several times during launching?
The only reason we can think of is that the cable had some slack and was overcome by the sudden point/shock load when the center board came free of its bunk. Perhaps someone can shed more light on this...

Since our last cable failure, we now make sure that the cable, before launching, is as tight as we can get it... 6 or more launches later... so far so good!! Yes... we do carry an extra, ready to go, cable on board

While on the subject of hauling up the center-board we noticed that it is much easier to do this with the assistance of one person below deck pulling on the cable.

Edited by - zeil on 02/13/2014 20:28:50

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