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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2014 : 21:24:26

Henk, In both of my failures, the cable was sliced at a point where it undoubtedly was done by the turning sheeve in the top of the trunk. We had a good discussion on the forum about this many years ago with the outcome of a theory that loading the boat on the trailer without pulling the board full up first would cause a slack in the cable that could find its way between the board and a sheave sharp edge when the board was pushed fully into the trunk as the boat comes to rest on the bunk boards when climbing the ramp.

My second failure occurred when I grounded the board on a submerged rock. I'd prepared to enter a cove by pulling the board up but no doubt failed to get it raised fully, and grounding pushed the board fully up and sliced the cable.

A problem has been with the raising tackle as it has at times prevented the full raising of the board.

My tackle was exactly to the Catalina drawing but over time it introduced twisted knots on the retract line. They prevented pulling the blocks close together and raising the board completely and that is what likely caused my first failure. The solution was to rotate the multi sheave lower block 90° for a fairer entry doing so by trading the location of the twist shackle.

The other discovery was that the supplied wire block had excessive drag due to either the side straps compressing or the nickle plating simply providing inadequate lubrication. Nickle on nickle makes for a poor bearing surface. I've known this from Ham Radio days dealing with cheaper nickle plated connectors. I removed the sheave from the block and removed the nickle plating from the sides to expose the brass to obtain less drag. The tackle was much better after those changes.

Hope this helps...

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2014 : 15:39:43

Thank you for your detailed description Arlyn

The nickel on nickel friction would explain why it is so much easier to completely up-haul the CB by someone in the cockpit and a second person assisting below decks and guiding the perhaps slightly thicker and definitely more flexible Vectran cable over the top sheave.

We experienced one instance where the Vectran cable jammed between the suspension side strap and the sheave. Only by releasing and prying the jammed line back onto the sheave were we able to complete the up-haul. Surprisingly, even though the edge of the sheave being sharp, there was no visible damage to the cable.

For those interested here is a descriptive site for the Vectran cable http://www.swicofil.com/vectran.html

Edited by - zeil on 02/15/2014 15:55:43

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2014 : 17:50:09

For those interested here are two Catalina supplied diagrams detailing the center board up-haul mechanism. (our '95 C250 does not have the replacement turning ball assembly)

Take a moment to absorb... This photograph is taken inside the cabin looking down through the up-haul cable tube into the water below the boat (cable is missing and needs to be replaced) with the original 1995 brass turning ball assembly entirely and clearly in view.
Note... the center of the brass turning ball guiding the Vectran cable appears to be smooth all round, without grooves. This would indicate that the turning ball, in spite of its age, is still operational as intended. No need to replace it with a new turning ball assembly

Edited by - zeil on 02/17/2014 18:58:33

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2014 : 08:23:38

In the upper drawing, I note that no twist shackle is shown. Mine came equipped with a twist shackle at the upper block of the B&T. I saw no reason for it there but did see value of using a twist shackle on the lower double block to provide a more fair entry of the hauling line.

As noted in the pic, the double block lays horizontal and the haul line action introduces twist knots in the line due to the angled entry.

Over time, these twist knots migrated to the line section between the two blocks preventing them from being drawn closely together and thus raising the board completely.

Use of a twist shackle on the lower double block, rotates the block vertically for a more fair entry of the haul line.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2014 : 22:58:10

Following up on Arlyn suggestion here are some images clearly showing that the friction of this block, even more so under load, is substantial.

On one side the nickel side plate is completely rubbing with the sheave whereas the other side is concave with less friction but still has about one inch rub area with the sheave.

Under load this will increase, seriously impacting the ease of raising the center board which, to us, feels like a two man job.

Possible solutions

1) Replace the block
2) Add thin neoprene washers to the existing block between sheave and side plates
3) other solutions?

Friction marks on the side of the sheave

One side of the nickle side plate is concave. The opposite comes in full contact with the sheave

Sheave touching the side plates creating substantial friction

Edited by - zeil on 02/21/2014 09:53:33

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2014 : 17:27:53

My curiosity was piqued and I went out to the boat and took a look at what I'd done. I did remove the nickle plating but also used some thin nylon washers on the sides. I did this at the same time as rotating the lower block and removing all the knots in the line.

The effort helped greatly.

You make a good point however about the block compressing under load and pinching the sheave. I'll take another look at that. If that is happening, the solution would be fairly simple. Remove the pin and sheave. Drill the sheave for a bushing that holds the block from compressing on the sheave.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2014 : 18:21:36

If you take a closer look at the sheave, you'll notice that it has an albeit thin brass insert. For that reason it should, without much friction, rotate easily on the pin.

Lacking the tools required to take the nickel off the sides of the sheave we added some thin slippery plastic to act as washers to both sides which improved free-running considerable. But now the clevis pin did not fit. So... off to the store to get parts but couldn't find the right size and the store did not have thin neoprene washers to replace the homemade plastic make-do washers. Instead, I found and got a deal on an, albeit over-sized, open cheek block as per illustration and installed it.
Question remains though... why did the factory install a friction loaded block in the first place.
Was it because
1) it is an economical block (dime a dozen)
2) the friction block is needed to dampen sudden movements of the center board ie: from full up to full down
3) for a ss cable this is what was the best (now replaced by an, just a little thicker, (5 m/m), Vectan line that barely fitted the old sheave.

Edited by - zeil on 02/21/2014 23:06:18

smithworld
Deckhand

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5 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2014 : 20:12:50

Hello, I am considering selling my trailer. It fits at 250WK, but perhaps could be adjusted to fit a water ballast. Trailer is a Road King built in 2006.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2014 : 07:04:21

Henk, could you post some pics that show the lower end of the keel haul line. (post via the members upload for archives)

Thanks.

paul

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2014 : 11:50:54

Paul... here are a few images of the (spare) lower end center board line connection. We have now, what some may consider overkill, two extra lines on board.

The photo's show a beautiful and very strong double eye splice, the best method of creating a permanent loop in the end of the multi stranded line.

The work was done by West Marine in San Diego following our troubling up-haul line failure.

Edited by - zeil on 02/23/2014 11:51:49

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2014 : 11:54:17

Thanks Henk, I was looking for images of the tackle inside the cabin behind the lowest step.

paul

Edited by - on

CJRoxs
Navigator

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USA
114 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2014 : 23:39:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by smithworld
 Hello, I am considering selling my trailer. It fits at 250WK, but perhaps could be adjusted to fit a water ballast. Trailer is a Road King built in 2006.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Where are you located? Do you have any pics of the trailer?

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2014 : 08:02:27

Your questions are reasonable.

I'm not thinking adding drag was a purpose.

Likely it was the best/economic choice for wire line.

Your replacement block seems a good choice. I'm still using wire line and do have a lathe so making a bushing is simple.

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2014 : 13:16:36

It's all of a sudden winter here on the west coast of British Columbia, normally the banana belt of Canada

The new open block allowes for easy replacement without having to undo the up-haul line... (max. capacity 350kg about 700 lbs)

Paul... here's an image of the double block up-haul mechanism showing a knot with an unpronounceable name and takes years to learn

Edited by - zeil on 02/24/2014 17:07:00

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2014 : 21:14:51

Should have mentioned in our previous post that the rationale for having two spare Vectran lines aboard is to have a choice depending on the situation.

1) The plain Vectran line can be inserted from the top through the up-haul tube and fastened to the center board

2) The line with the center board connection can be attached but must be fished up through the center board tube

Edited by - on

smithworld
Deckhand

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5 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2014 : 18:14:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by CJRoxs
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by smithworld
 Hello, I am considering selling my trailer. It fits at 250WK, but perhaps could be adjusted to fit a water ballast. Trailer is a Road King built in 2006.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Where are you located? Do you have any pics of the trailer?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sure, the trailer is in North Texas.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2014 : 19:16:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by zeil

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I hate to hijack the thread, but could you explain the transom modification for your motor mount? Based on the sunlight shining through, it looks like your transom stops at the cockpit sole on the starboard side, which requires the plastic/wood add-on for your motor mount. Why don't you have the fiberglass bulkhead with scupper there that the rest of us have?

Edited by - TakeFive on 03/10/2014 19:17:47

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2014 : 10:38:23

We assume that the motor mount was standard on the 1995 C250 WB version. It has served well, easy to keep clean, is well mounted and made of very strong material. Perhaps someone on the forum will know the name of the material was used.

Not sure when the change to the fiberglass bulkhead, you refer to, was made.

As shown, we added last year a simple, effective and out-of-the-way spare motor mounting rail.

The 2.3 hp motor amply clears the swing of the (old model) 8 hp Honda

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2014 : 10:47:17

Has to be a least 2005. JD has the modified engine well with drain.

Paul

Edited by - on

CJRoxs
Navigator

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USA
114 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2014 : 06:26:17

I have a 1995 WB and it has the fiberglass transom mount that I see on all the other boats. They must have changed sometime in 95'. Does your motor hit the fuel locker when you turn to starboard?

Also, is that a seat above the fuel locker?

Edited by - CJRoxs on 03/18/2014 06:27:43

mowrangler
1st Mate

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USA
66 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2014 : 11:01:09

Mine is a 95 and the same as Henk's. My motor (90's Yamaha 9.9) still hits both sides but I have considered trying to get it back about 3 inches which should be enough to go lock to lock as long as the handle is up on the motor.

Edited by - on

CJRoxs
Navigator

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USA
114 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2014 : 11:16:44

Any ideas on how you will do this?

Edited by - on

zeil
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1318 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2014 : 11:19:05

Wonder why Catalina apparently made the switch as early as 1995...
Someday Lady's hull number is #151 and came standard with the "2x4"type motor mount. Do you have a higher hull number?

The motor is mounted just slightly of center to starboard to provide more swing room when turning to starboard.

The stern seat was made in '06 by a local SS shop from a drawing we made.

Edited by - on

CJRoxs
Navigator

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USA
114 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2014 : 19:59:55

Yes, hull #231. My motor is off center to starboard also but the motor still hits the locker. I thought of using one of these but it sticks out 11 inches.

Edited by - on

mowrangler
1st Mate

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USA
66 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2014 : 16:04:24

My hope was to find something similar to that, but not quite as long. I thought Catalina offered one at some point, but I haven't been able to find where I read about it. I have a buddy who is pretty good with fabricating things, so if all else fails we may need to get creative. :)

Edited by - on

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