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Sailing the Elk River Maryland question?!?

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Jweikel625
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/24/2014 : 07:22:22

For my fellow Chesapeake Bay sailors. Has anyone ventured north of the C and D Canal? There is a marina up there that has a good rate on the dock. This past year I moored for the season but the present Marina is out of the price range as are most in that area. What I know is; the depths are shallow but a channel was dredged in the past 2-3 years. The marina has had a 26 mcgregor and smaller sailboats in the past. It appears to be a mile north of deeper waters. So I would have to motor 15-20 minutes with keel up before i can lower and truly sail.
Does anyone else know this area or have opinions?
Even where I am at, on most days I have to sail with my keel half way up because of depth issues. 10 -15 minute to get into channel. Then keel can come fully down. My mooring ball is too rocky to ever sleep on the ball.

1980 SK/SR
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41307503@N06/,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPDZgkSfCVg

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2014 : 07:52:09

Is there a reason you need to be so far north? Where are you now?

BBYH on the Bohemia is further down and seems to have more water than you describe (based on the charted depths and my one time visiting there). But that might be your current marina AFAIK. I know big boats have problems in Bohemia, but I would think our boats would be OK. Please let me know if you've had problems with BBYH, since that is where I might move if/when I'm willing to keep my boat further from home. I also plan to visit there frequently this season.

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Jweikel625
1st Mate

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59 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2014 : 10:09:59

That is my current marina. Very nice facility. The staff is great, amenities are great also. It takes me just under 2 hours to get there from Reading, pa. But the down side is I can't afford a dock there. The mooring field is rocking and rolling so wouldn't want to sleep there. I was trying to see if there was any docks for $1500 or less. It is definitely a crap shot! If not I will stay at BBYH. They provide taxi service for the mooring field which is nice. I plan to be in the water mid-end of May. So if I am there would definitely invite you down. I have issues with depths with keel fully dropped but learned to crank 15-20 times down and I am ok. The marina has a lot of 50' yachts.
This will be my second season and really see the benefits of having a slip. Wish I could find a private home who will rent a dock for the season. That would be ultimate.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 02/24/2014 : 14:50:36

My marina on the Delaware River is under $1000, but not nearly as nice sailing as your place. It's 12 minutes from my house, which makes it the right place for me at the moment. My slip is 15' deep at low tide, and 100' from sailable water. But there's a lot of tacking on the river, and need to plan your destination based on the current.

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Jweikel625
1st Mate

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USA
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Response Posted - 02/24/2014 : 16:57:32

Rick, Tell me more about your sailing grounds. The airport on a straight shot is an hour away. What is the name of your marina? How far have you gone and is their places to go?? I plan to go down to the Elk River, MD Saturday to check it out the other marina and check in on my boat (weather pending).

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 02/24/2014 : 20:41:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jweikel625
 Rick, Tell me more about your sailing grounds. The airport on a straight shot is an hour away. What is the name of your marina? How far have you gone and is their places to go?? I plan to go down to the Elk River, MD Saturday to check it out the other marina and check in on my boat (weather pending).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
We are near the west end of the runway. It gets noisy enough to stop conversation, so we don't hang out at the marina much. We go and sail, or I stay and work on the boat. I've learned to tune out the periodic noise, so it doesn't bother me, but it is an annoyance if you're trying to have a lengthy conversation. Lots of people sleep overnight there despite the jet noise. I would have no problem sleeping there, but living 12 minutes away I just go home.

The river is not nearly as nice as the Bay, but it's so close for us that we daysail a lot more frequently than we would on the Bay - typically one evening every week and one day each weekend. (That's all our busy schedules allow right now.) The sailable part of the river (6' deep or more) is typically about 1/2 nautical mile wide. Most of this area is 30-50' deep, which is part of the reason the currents are so strong. There are not a lot of destinations - but it's sailing, and it's close. There's a little cove with moorings about an hour upriver, with a real nice restaurant that you can dinghy to. You can sail up to Penns Landing in Philly in 2.5 hours (with the current), so a round trip is possible if you time the current right in both directions. Or stay overnight in a slip for $1.75/ft and you have your own little hotel in the middle of Philly's waterfront. You can sail down to Delaware City in 4 hours, wait a couple hours for the canal current to turn favorable, motor through the canal in another 3 hours, and be at BBYH and hour or two after that. So it's a whole 10-12 hour day to get to the upper bay by boat. All these times are with the current, which is about 2 knots at peak. You need to determine which way you go on the river based on the current, so one weekend you can go upriver, the next weekend you can go downriver. (Or time your round trip to change directions at slack.) Otherwise, it's a SLOW SLOG going against the current. You can tack with the current, or run/reach against the current, but you can't tack against both wind and current, because you'll go backwards. If you get stuck against both the wind and current, fire up your motor to get out of trouble.

You need to stay out of the way of large shipping traffic. They move deceptively fast. On a typical weekday you'll see 1 or 2 of them. (You're probably used to this on the Elk.) On weekends, you often won't see any. You'll always see some anchored on the horizon. AIS is real helpful, since you can tell immediately which ones are moving and which ones aren't, which you often can't tell visually when they're 2-4 miles away.

There are several sailboat-friendly (deep) marinas, all in a row right in the river. So you have to enter the fairway in cross-currents. Little Tinicum Island protects us from freighter wakes. In season I stay at Anchorage Marina, the one that's closest to the airport. Then going west there are Golden Point, Fox's Grove, some powerboat-only club, a couple private docks, Harbor Pointe (almost out of business, only 2 boats were there last year), Riverside Yacht Club, Corinthian Yacht Club, and West End Boat Club. As you go west, the water gets shallower and you are less protected from the long southwest fetch. So Anchorage is the most protected and deepest water. It's also pretty high vacancy, so I get a double-wide slip all to myself. I am a member at West End, but the water's too skinny for me to keep my boat there. There are a few swing keels who do stay there, but they can't go in or out at low tide. I do winter storage on the hard at West End, because Anchorage has no yard for storage.

We have never had any odors of any kind around my boat - the currents prevent any stagnant buildup, and flush everything away. There is some debris that washes in after bad storms when there is a real high tide. It was a problem after Irene, but 2013 was very debris-free.

I guess the best summary is that it doesn't suck as much as I thought it might.

I love sailing, and I love not having to drive 1-2 hours down to the bay. I'm happy daysailing close to home, and trying to get down to the bay for short cruises a couple times a year.

Edited by - TakeFive on 02/24/2014 20:54:56

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 02/24/2014 : 20:53:21

More: For us, a typical daysail is about 3 hours. Depending on current, we'll either go downriver past Boeing helicopter plant, the Harrah's casino, Commodore Barry Bridge, and turn around by the soccer stadium; or we'll go up river into the cove (stop to grill lunch/dinner) or up past the Navy Yard/sports complex and back. We only go all the way up to Philly once or twice a year. Funny wind shifts always happen around Horseshoe Bend.

Last year we made it all the way to Patapsco River in one VERY LONG 13 hour day (too much motoring, though), and also down to BBYH another time for an overnight, with daysail to/from Havre de Grace the next day. For $1/foot wit nice showers and pool, BBYH seems to be a great place for transient stopovers.

I'm really looking forward to using BBYH as a first-day stopping point for several short cruises this season. My wife really doesn't like the hurried run downriver and through the canal (too much motoring because we have to hit the current schedule), so our plan this year is for me to singlehand to BBYH, she meets me there in her car for the evening, and we continue further down into the Bay for the next few days. That also gives us some wheels at BBYH to get to provisions and restaurants. Or, we'll just charter a boat in Rock Hall, but I'm usually too cheap to do that when our own boat is big enough for the two of us.

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Jweikel625
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2014 : 20:58:28

Rick, Thank you! Great information. The drive did get old very quickly so this year I hope to customize the cabin to sleep better. So that way I will feel more comfortable spending overnights and more time at the boat without driving the 2 hours home. Moving up the elk above the canal will also shave 10-15 minutes off the commute and the place has a bar/restaurant, which BBYH lacks. So far the trade off is sailing off the hook at BBYH vs motoring to open waters which is a mile south to the canal from Triton Marina. We do see ships come by so I try to stay out of the middle of the channel. They do move faster then you think!!

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2014 : 21:02:37

One last comment: My bay friends always disagree with me on this, but I truly believe that he evening summer breezes are more predictable and reliable here on the river than they are down on the bay. I believe that it has to do with the fact that the narrow river is always close to land, and there are thermal gradients between the land and water. But on the vast majority of evenings, there is a nice gentle breeze on the river, while the bay seems to just die.

I might be guilty of some selection bias, because I can check the real-time weather stations at PHL airport and just stay home if it's dead, but it sure seems like most any evening that I want to go sailing, there's a decent breeze.

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2014 : 21:07:12

Triton Marina brings back bad memories for me. 20 years ago I dropped my Trophy Boat (shown in the pic below) into the water there and took my wife and (then) young kids out for the day. We came back as the tide was going out, and the 50 hp motor sucked in so much mud that it overheated. We were about 100 yards from the boat ramp, it was getting dark, and the tide was going out even more, so I decided to jump in and walk the boat to shore. I found myself in mud up past my knees.

Nice way to spend Fathers Day!

I can't imagine keeping any kind of sailboat there.

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Frank Law
Navigator

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USA
159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2014 : 12:44:15

Regarding the Elk River I bought my boat on the Elk about 10 years ago.. The marina was on the west side of the river. I motored down the river and have never been back up past the canal.. My boat is in winter storage at Harbor North right at the mouth of the canal .. From that marina down to Turkey Point is just about 1 hour motoring..No sailng above the Bohemia to narrow.. I have a camper off the Sassafras and keep "About Time" on a mooring in the creek at the campground .. FREE!! Campground is not open to the general public..
I did not sail last year and not sure about this year (:
Frank Law
"About Time"
1983 3519
Sr , swk

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Jweikel625
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 16:57:30

Frank, did you ever keep your boat in a slip at Harbour North? I spoke with them and they had a great yearly rate, bad news is the low tide, which seem to be lower then the draft. Sounds like the boat would rest in silt/mud two times a day everyday, with a mean low tide of 3 feet. Any thoughts?

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Frank Law
Navigator

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USA
159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 18:17:37

No I never kept my boat there .. But there are sailboats in slips there.. Yes there is a BIG tide problem at Harbor North . They have the lowest rates around for winter storage that I found .. I think I paid less than $25.00 a foot .I've used them for winter storage for 10 years . They are a NO FRILLS marina ,where you can do your own work.

Frank Law
"ABOUT TIME"
1983 3519
SWK , SR

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Jweikel625
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 20:46:28

What effects would that have on the bottom of the boat to rest in the siltmud for a hour or two if the tide does drop below 3 feet? Have you seen 25+ foot boats there?

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 21:16:48

Charted depth datum references MLLW, but NOAA's predicted low tides in that area frequently go 1/2 foot below that. A good N-NW blow can push enough water out of the Bay to cause low tide up to 2 feet below prediction. This morning's low tide at Chesapeake City was 1.5 feet below prediction with northerly winds of under 10 knots:

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So if using charted depths as your guide, you need to make allowances for this.

Note also that water temps are around 35F. Don't fall overboard if you're a winter sailor. Even with a PFD, you'll lose all muscle control at those temps.

Edited by - TakeFive on 03/02/2014 10:09:13

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