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 Winch conversion		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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montl
1st Mate

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Canada
30 Posts
Initially Posted - 03/05/2014 :  13:14:14  Show Profile
I am considering the upgrade to self tailing winches on my 1980 C25.
It currently has Lewmar 7 single speed, and the upgrade would appear to be Lewmar EVO 15 or Lewmar ocean 16 self tailing.
Has anyone done this change? I presume the bolt pattern is different.
Any help is appreciated.
Lloyd Montgomery
Morning Star #1838
Lake Diefenbaker, SK., Canada
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts
Response Posted - 03/05/2014 :  14:08:38  Show Profile
The type of winches you will find most useful depends on how you intend to use them. I like self tailers for cruising and for sailing shorthanded, but don't like them at all for racing. When racing, the stripper arm gets in the way when you're trying to peel the line off the winch quickly while tacking. Self tailers are more helpful on a big boat, with a larger sail area and heavier line loads. On a Catalina 25, you don't need them at all in light to moderate winds. They only become helpful in stronger winds. Self tailing winches cost alot more than standard winches, so, you can save quite a bit if you decide you don't need them. If you haven't used them, it would be good if you can crew for a friend who has them, to see if you like them.

I just got a phenomenal buy on ebay on a pair of new Lewmar winches for my C&C 35. If you are interested in either new or used, you can save alot on ebay, but you have to look at used winches critically, because there's alot of junk there. One of the main concerns is to look carefully at the winch drum to see if the crosshatching on the drum is worn away. Often, you will see a smooth drum, and that means the jibsheet will slip on the winch when it's under load. Also, avoid very old winches, because parts are difficult to find for them.

Do an ebay search for "Lewmar winches" and for "Harken winches."

The bolt pattern will probably be different. The last time I replaced my winches, I cut a round disk out of plate aluminum, to reinforce the gunwale from underneath, since it had more holes in it.
Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/05/2014 14:22:42
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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts
Response Posted - 03/05/2014 :  14:34:01  Show Profile
The later C 25s had selftailers. I owned an '82 with the 7s and an '89 with the selftailers. Many here love them, I hated them, well placed cleats are all the C 25 needs. A self tailer is a winch which prevents you from performing fine trimming with the sheet in your hand. The sails are so small on a C 25 that the 7 is an ample winch and you can let the line out in one motion, lift out of cleat, relax tension, set back in cleat. It is seldom that you need a winch handle when hauling in a sail but with a self tailer you must have a handle. In my experience I have never needed a selftailer but there have been times when a two speed would have been great, but I digress. Anyway, I love hardware and have bought a lot for my boats and IMHO I do not recommend that you "upgrade" to selftailers, buy a Harken furler instead.
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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts
Response Posted - 03/05/2014 :  15:55:34  Show Profile
We installed Winchers on our '81 boat. Worked great. I will deliberately avoid the whole discussion about the pros & cons of these great additions, since it's been beaten to death on this and just about every other boating forum I've ever read (and I contribute to many, many boating forums).

In regard to this discussion, though, they have none of the drawbacks of the arm getting in the way and can be used as regular winches with cleats if you want to.
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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts
Response Posted - 03/06/2014 :  07:50:52  Show Profile
My '84 had self tailing winches. They were a factory option, I had the original invoice and they were listed there. My Pearson 28-2 also has them (but they are two speed Lewmar #30s). I also sail on other boats without them.

pastmember: I'm confused by your statement that the self tailing winches prevent you from fine trimming with a sheet in your hand. Having self tailing winches doesn't require you to use them, you can easily just put the line around the drum without using the cleat area.

I like them when single handing, but they aren't essential. I'm not sure that I'd spend the money to upgrade.
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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts
Response Posted - 03/06/2014 :  07:53:55  Show Profile
I too had winchers on my 87. They were excellent. Not as self tailers as I think they're marketed, but allowing for easy on/off cleating. My "new" boat has big self-tailing winches, and I'm still getting used to them.
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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts
Response Posted - 03/06/2014 :  10:52:16  Show Profile
Alex, you are right about not using the stripper and "crown" (for lack of the right term), but then if you need to flip a wrap off or cast the sheet off completely when tacking the selftailer can cause problems. This is one of those things that speaks to how we as individuals enjoy our boats and we all have a little different perspective. I think selftailers are best when you have a full crew and someone is dedicated to making sure the winch is doing what it is supposed to do, I think it complicates singlehanding. Plus so few people know how to use one properly, a cleat is much easier.
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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts
Response Posted - 03/06/2014 :  10:58:25  Show Profile
Man, I am so unsophisticated!
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bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1779 Posts
Response Posted - 03/06/2014 :  20:02:52  Show Profile
If I am not mistaken, the std witches on my boat were Lewmar 16 two speed. If I were to replace with self tailing I would go with the Lewmar 16 self tailing.

That said, when I replaced my winches two seasons ago I went with new Lewmar two speed std inches as the cost benefit in my situation did not warrent self tailing winches. I have used the gripping "win charades" with success and they are cheaper . . . but then again I am a passive cruiser.
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.