Association Forum - C250 Wing Keel on Hydro Hoist

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

C250 Wing Keel on Hydro Hoist

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Cerulean II
Deckhand

Member Avatar

USA
19 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/27/2014 : 11:32:31

Does anyone have a C250 WK on a level lift hydro hoist?

Mine is currently 2/3rd of the way forward on the lift and still sitting lower in the aft by 2 inches.

I currently have 200lbs in the front and she is still not level on her lines. I will see how much mor weight will need to be added to the bow after the water tank gets filled in April.

Edit: Moved to C250 forum from swap meet. You're far more likely to get relevant responses there.

Dave Runnels
"Cerulean II" 2000 C250 WK #443
Windycrest Sailing Club
Kestone Lake, Oklahoma

We cannot direct the winds but we can adjust our sails.

Edited by - C250 Editor on 03/27/2014 11:41:59

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2014 : 11:43:45

I can't answer your question because I don't have a hydro hoist. But, you will get more replies if post the question in the C250 sub-forum. This is the Swap Meet, where you list your items for sale.

Click this link to go to the main forum page:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/default.asp

Edited by - on

Cerulean II
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2014 : 12:03:47

Thanks, just now learning the new forum. I did not move it, but it was moved.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2014 : 12:04:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 I can't answer your question because I don't have a hydro hoist. But, you will get more replies if post the question in the C250 sub-forum. This is the Swap Meet, where you list your items for sale.

Click this link to go to the main forum page:
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/default.asp

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I moved it to the right forum for him.

Edited by - on

Dave Brown
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
174 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2014 : 14:45:00

Not sure what a hydro hoist is ??
Can you explained.
I have a WK, and in the water it sits level with 160lb
of sand, all the way FWD.
We Don't use the water tank, use 1 gal water jugs,
and just bring on what we'll need for the weekend,
This works for us, and the water stays fresh.
my 2 ct.

Dave B.

_______________/)________________/)______________/))))__________
.

Edited by - on

Cerulean II
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2014 : 18:31:53

I have a wheel which is a little more weight in back. Just learning how to navigate this site, I don't know how to post pics yet.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2014 : 18:52:42

Join the Association - Pic posting is not only easy, but they stay as archived 4E4.

Paul

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2014 : 18:59:39

FWIW, I think I have about 300 lb in the bow to keep her on her lines. And I try to keep the water tank full. I have a wheel also. The proper amount of ballast could also be affected by how many batteries, holding tank, weight of motor, motor mount, etc.

I don't have a Hydrohoist, but I've seen them in marina and pictures. I think you have to do two separate balancing acts. First, add the appropriate ballast to get the boat floating on her lines when in the water. After that is done, then you need to figure out the proper fore-aft positioning of the boat on the Hydrohoist to keep the boat level when parked. Once you find the right fore-aft position, you need to somehow mark it by putting a fender or other fixed object in a place that ensures you park the boat in the same position every time.

You are correct to put a lot of effort into this. Correct leveling is essential to prevent leakage through both the foredeck hatch and the companionway slider hatch. I learned during two hurricanes that a strong blowing rain from the stern can cause leakage through the companionway no matter how well you have the boat leveled. A canvas cover over that hatch makes a huge difference, but you need to remove that for a hurricane or the wind will remove it for you. For the hurricanes I tried sealing with masking tape, but it did not completely prevent leakage.

Edited by - TakeFive on 03/28/2014 06:24:27

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2014 : 11:52:18

I have had a C25 on a Hydro-Hoist for 20 years (and now a C22 on the same hoist). You need to have the stern a little lower than the bow. This allows the cockpit to drain.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2014 : 12:55:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 I have had a C25 on a Hydro-Hoist for 20 years (and now a C22 on the same hoist). You need to have the stern a little lower than the bow. This allows the cockpit to drain.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The C250 is a different boat. If the stern is low, the foredeck hatch will leak into the A-berth. The boat needs to be level, within a degree or so.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2014 : 15:26:28

Sounds a bit dumb to me...why isn't the hatch properly sealed?

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2014 : 16:10:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cerulean II
 Does anyone have a C250 WK on a level lift hydro hoist?
Mine is currently 2/3rd of the way forward on the lift and still sitting lower in the aft by 2 inches.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I have a hydro-hoist boat lift for my powerboat, but it's not strong enough to lift my C250 (water-ballast).
When my C250 is on the trailer, having the aft 2-inches higher/lower will still allow water to drain properly.

Is there a problem with the aft 2-inches lower on the lift?

Edited by - on

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2014 : 16:23:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
The C250 is a different boat. If the stern is low, the foredeck hatch will leak into the A-berth. The boat needs to be level, within a degree or so.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Rick,
I haven't had a leak with the foredeck hatch.
I have had a leak with the companion way hatch when the aft was high.
Again, this was on a trailer.
In my case, the leak was when the aft was 4-inches higher than the stern.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2014 : 16:59:27

Russ, I don't want to get dogmatic about this. There is often more than one way to solve a problem on a sailboat. However, I'll share my viewpoint and experience.

The gutter around the front hatch is pitched to drain into the anchor locker. From there, water drains out the through-hull at the bow. Pitching the boat too high in the bow will cause water to accumulate in the gutter and stagnate, taking on a green slimy look over time. (I know this from experience.) The water will accumulate there until it finds a place to exit or evaporates in a long dry spell.

While in theory you can prevent this water from leaking in with a 100% perfect gasket, that is not easy to attain. Any gasket is going to have an unsealed seam where one end meets the other end. When water pools all the way around the gutter, it will leak through that seam, no matter where you have it located - front, aft, or sides. You could attempt to do a plastic weld on that seam, but if you do not have 100% perfect smooth weld, with 100% perfect adhesion all the way around the bottom, and 100% perfect seal between the gasket and the hatch, water will escape into the A-berth. Even if you could achieve perfect seal, I am not sure it would last more than a couple seasons of weather.

By the way, my 1 degree tolerance was a guess. 12*25*sin(1°)=5.2". So that means the bow or stern could be high by about 5". But 1° was just a WAG. It may be less.

My advice is to test the drain direction of water off the front gutter and the companionway hatch. Add ballast to ensure that the water goes the right direction on both surfaces.

Edited by - TakeFive on 03/28/2014 19:26:13

Russ.Johnson
Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2014 : 08:30:49

Rick,
You have a point. I learned the lesson of testing the drain direction.
I guess I've been lucky with my forward hatch.
Thanks, Russ

Edited by - on

Cerulean II
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2014 : 09:39:43

Thanks for everyone's input. I have posted some pics in the C250 gallery. So now for some more details.

I currently have 200lbs of sand in the bow, with an empty water tank, I am will be adding 50lbs more and then will wait to fill the water tank, which should add an additional 100lbs.

Currently for the lift to sit level in the water with Cerulean II on it, the keel sits about 1/3 back from the front of the hoist. The person setting up the hoist said that most boats will sit mostly centered. Looking at my boat on the hoist, it appears ( I will measure soon) to have the keel more towards the bow vs stern.

For a perfectly level hoist, the boat has to be moved forward on the lift. What I am seeing & thinking is that to have the boat sit level on the hoist with the hoist level in the water, I will have to have it sitting forward on the lift and the aft of the boat raised on the lift with risers.

It has been a learning experience for me, as well as the person that has installed hundreds of hoist over the last 20 years. This is the first Catalina C250 WK for him.

Again, thanks for all of the comments and I will let you know the final out come.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2014 : 11:17:06

[url="https://www.catalina-capri-25s.net/cgi-local/MBR_gallery.cgi?Album+2693+170"]

Click to view the Album[/url]

Paul

Edited by - britinusa on 03/31/2014 11:43:40

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2014 : 13:46:39

So what size lift did you get and does it get the keel completely out of the water? Does it sit on a keel board or just hang?

Edited by - on

Lehooks
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2014 : 16:08:06

Dave,

Can you show us the support system for your table so we can see how it swings?

Edited by - on

kc5dlo
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
71 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2014 : 17:32:38

Could you simply raise the rear end of the bunks? Or lower the front?

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2014 : 21:13:41

Most of the weight of the boat has to be on the back end of the hist. Get the boat too far forward and the hoist will drop front end first - and then you are "up the creek without a paddle" (the voixce of experience...)

Edited by - on

Cerulean II
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2014 : 07:26:38

Lehooks,
I used the mounting bracket fromt the original table and it is positioned 5/8" from the edge which allows the table a little swing room to either side.

Edited by - on

Cerulean II
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2014 : 07:38:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kc5dlo
 Could you simply raise the rear end of the bunks? Or lower the front?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I do plan on raising the rear bunks supports 1 to 2". I will still need to move the boat forward with the keel approximately 1/4 to 1/3 of the way from the front of the hoist.

The person who installed my hoist said that most most boats will have the keel sitting midway on the hoist, allowing the pontoons to sit level in the water, this is why it is called a Level Lift Hoist.

I was suprised at how far forward the keel is on this boat and where it needs to be positioned on the lift for everything to sit level.

The old lifts always lifted the front first and then the back would come up and you did need to have more weight on the back of the hoist to prevent it from going forward and letting air out of the back of the tubes.

Mine is designed to always be level through the entire drop or lift.

One of the nice features is I can let the hoist down with the boat not completely in the water and everything stays level while the hoist is supporting the boat.

Edited by - on

Cerulean II
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2014 : 07:39:28

britinusa,

Sorry about accidently deleting the picture of my table in your link..I did not do it on purpose.

Edited by - on

Cerulean II
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2014 : 08:49:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 So what size lift did you get and does it get the keel completely out of the water? Does it sit on a keel board or just hang?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My boat is a Wing Keel, the hoist is a 6,600lb lift and currently the keel sits about 6 inches in the water.

I am adding risers to the pads on the lift to get the keel and rudder about 4 inches out of the water.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2014 : 11:44:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cerulean II
 britinusa,

Sorry about accidently deleting the picture of my table in your link..I did not do it on purpose.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Grrrrr (

)

Paul

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.