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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

New (to me) 1978 Catalina 25 - adventure begins

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Bikeandsail
Deckhand

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5 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/26/2014 : 08:06:59

Hello from Lake Union and the Pacific Northwest, folks. I am now the proud and a little terrified owner of S/V Maggie, a 1978 Catalina 25, with poptop, fin keel, a boatload of charm, and lord knows how many issues I don't yet know how to identify. My first boat! Somebody should tell me how to format my forum signature...

After my fifth or sixth sail on her yesterday, I noticed some water accumulation in the portside cockpit locker, and began to suspect intrusion from the outboat mount bolts while heeled. What do you think of that theory, and what action should I be taking? Is this going to be a big core-replacement...ahem...adventure?

Excited to be part of the community here, it was a selling point for me on getting a catalina 25.

1978 C-2S "S/V Maggie" Hull #793 SR/FK/trad. Interior
Lake Union, Seattle

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2014 : 08:25:17

Welcome and congratulations, Bike...!

I'm dubious... The outboard bracket shouldn't be submerged unless maybe you're totally broached. Are you noticing the increase in water only after sailing, or is it perhaps after rain? If the latter, I might suspect the cockpit scuppers, which on you vintage (if memory serves) are forward in the cockpit(?) Another consideration is that water that gets into the bilge can migrate to that locker (as well as out of it to the bilge). Depending on your interior configuration (L, Dinette, or Traditional), you should be able to see into the bilge, where the low point is the keel stub. Water can get there from many sources--leaky window frames are among the most common. What do you see down there?

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/26/2014 08:29:36

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2014 : 08:36:27

Oh--your signature... What we'd like to see are a few things about the boat that will help us answer some questions you'll have: year, rig (Tall or Standard), keel (Swing, Fin or Wing), and maybe the interior (Dinette, Traditional, or L-Dinette)... Those are the key items. Hull # doesn't hurt. Also, maybe where it is that you generally sail, and maybe even at least your first name(?) You can see lots of signature examples here. Don't worry about pictures for now--they're unnecessary embellishments.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/26/2014 08:43:14

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
468 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2014 : 09:20:20

There've been numerous threads here about water accumulating in the bilges and on how to locate the source (like marking areas with chalk to see if it washes off to indicate water running down past that spot). The first thing I would suggest would be to mop it up and dry it out completely, and then start checking regularly to see when it appears. That will help you zero-in on the source.

You referred to "the portside cockpit locker" so I'm taking that to mean the large sail locker often referred to here as "the dumpster." If that's the case, you'll probably find a hole between that space and the bilge on the other side of the fore-and-aft bulkhead, and water in the bottom of the dumpster would mean water throughout the bilges area. On my '80 there's a removable plywood hatch cover under the mattress in the quarter-berth, giving access to that area. We with swing-keel models also have an opening where the winch cable passes through, under the companionway, but your fixed keel probably wouldn't have that. However, water in the bilges should also be evident under the stbd. settee in the main saloon, and under the settee (or settees, depending on your model) on the port side as well. With a fixed-keel you should have a panel in the sole of the saloon that gives access to the keel bolts. That would definitely be a place to check.

I've been having an ongoing problem with a substantial amount of water entering whenever the rub-rail goes under (on San Francisco Bay, especially in the summertime, we regularly get winds that surge from low 20's up to low 30's, and I get to spend a lot more time rail-down than my girlfriend would prefer). I've discovered that the hull-to-deck joint is leaking, and one of my deferred projects is to remove the plastic rub-rail, and its aluminum extrusion backing strip, and caulk that joint thoroughly. That could be one source of your accumulation, but there are a lot of other possibilities.

As Dave B. suggested it might be rainwater, and it may have been gradually accumulating until you're just now noticing it. That might be the worst possibility, because if it's coming through holes for through-bolts it could be fresh water soaking the plywood between the outer fiberglass shell and the inner liner. Fresh water encourages the bacterial breakdown of wood (rot) much more than salt water. However, those holes are relatively easy to seal (the countersink and caulk method) and there are a lot of areas where there isn't plywood between the fiberglass layers to worry about.

One place that I find I get a lot of rainwater entering is the clamshell vents (the metal "scoops") that provide ventilation to the dumpster and to the aft bilge area. One side has a flexible 3" plastic hose (like a clothes dryer vent hose) leading to the bilges, but the port side vent on mine just opens to the shelf where the portable fuel container sits. I wouldn't be surprised if you were to find rainwater accumulating on that shelf (there should be some kind of low raised barrier to keep leaking fuel from running down into the bilges). Someone here fabricated a very cool insert for that vent cowling to prevent this source of rainwater intrusion.

In the Pacific Northwest you can expect to have rainwater entering places where it shouldn't. This could be an ongoing challenge, along with all of the other challenges of maintaining a boat.

Anyway, welcome to this community. Like you, my discovery of this wealth of information and support was an important factor in my settling on a Cat-25.

Edited by - Lee Panza on 04/26/2014 09:32:17

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2014 : 12:19:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Lee Panza
 ...Someone here fabricated a very cool insert for that vent cowling to prevent this source of rainwater intrusion...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Don Lucier.

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asduffy
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2014 : 12:25:49

I have a 77 catalina 25 I sail in Lake Union, great place to start, congrats and welcome.

Before you go out next time check to see if there is any water in the bilge. If there is, remove it with the bilge pump and check to see if there is any water in the locker, remove that too if you can. On my boat the ventilation hose from the starboard side is fed thru a 3 inch hole at the bottom of the port locker and when heeled over collects water there if I forget to empty my bilge. If that solves the problem then you may be experiencing the same thing. However if you notice that when you return there is no water in the bilge but there is in the locker then it's time to do some more troubleshooting.

Cheers

Edited by - on

Bikeandsail
Deckhand

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5 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2014 : 09:51:29

Looks like I have a lot more investigation to do even to understand what's bilge and what's a compartment, let alone ID this problem. Thanks for these thoughts folks, I have been exploring the archives on this forum.

Another question: I believe my c 25 is missing a bilge pump. It came with just a handheld manual pump, and the portside cockpit manual pump I have heard mentioned here is unequivocally absent. I'm puzzled too by where the pump would in the bilge itself. When I access the area under the quarter berth, the lowest/foremost point of that compartment has a patch right on the centerline of the boat where it looks like a hole used to pass through to more bilge area around the keel. It's like a previous owner sealed off this bilge section from those forward. Sorry I don't have pictures, I can gather them soon, but do any of you folks have an idea what's going on here? I think a cockpit-actuated manual bilge pump is something I would like to have/add.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2014 : 11:39:12

My boat came with the manual bilge pump already installed. Located on the port side of the cockpit, the actual pump is located in the "dumpster" and a hose leads down to the bilge through a hole in the bottom of said "dumpster".

It looks like this pump/handle configuration here:
http://www.thebosworthco.com/pproduct.php?ID=GH-M500D-4

Many people have installed a 12v bilge pump in the bilge. Those pumps are in the bilge and are usually a separate installation from the manual pump.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2014 : 10:55:59

The portside cockpit mounted bilge pump was an option in 78. Mine does not have one either.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2014 : 13:34:53

[quote][ bilge pump was an option in 78/quote]
Option...Really?...Wow It's hard to believe that a bilge pump would be an option. What was standard equipment...A bucket? Paper cup?

Edited by - islander on 04/28/2014 13:36:00

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2014 : 05:49:26

I added two inset hinges to the bilge cover to make it easier to remove the water the bilge pump could not, and made the hole a little bigger to be able to see in at the water level.

Edited by - redeye on 04/29/2014 05:50:27

ftworthsailor
Captain

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USA
279 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2014 : 07:04:53

"Option...Really?...Wow It's hard to believe that a bilge pump would be an option. What was standard equipment...A bucket? Paper cup?"

Mine came with two of those large, really absorbant sponges. It also has a broken bilge pump with missing pump handle...

I keep my bilge pretty dry. Still don't know where the water is coming from..... only gets water in the bilge when I do some serious sailing and heel the boat... I may try the chalk routine to see if I can find out where its coming in at.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2014 : 18:38:03

With my trusty old 78 C-25 I have had all types of leaks from rain now and then - windows, deck hardware, anchor locker, pop top gasket, lower gudgeon bolt, companionway hatch boards, an old knotmeter installed in the bulkhead, broken solar powered vent cover, maybe the deck hull joint, too.

One way to determine how rain gets in to the bilge is to use experimental tarps or small temporary covers. You may be able to identify one or more causes by covering the source.

My full boat cover last winter eliminated all water intrusion, for the first time in my 9 years with the boat!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2014 : 10:09:25

I did not keep sails in the "dumpster" (used the v-berth), except when we were sailing and wanted a neater cabin. The small amount of water that got into and collected in the dumpster was easily removed using a string mop, after, of course, using that same water to mop down the "dumpster" floor.
The bilge below the cabin floor should be dry.

Edited by - dmpilc on 05/01/2014 10:10:15

Bikeandsail
Deckhand

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5 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2014 : 22:55:55

I've been sailing the boat for more than a month and feeling out needed projects and priority issues. A little moisture in the bilge is still a problem, even after a stretch of no rain. I pulled out about two gallons of water with a sponge from different bilge compartments the other day, following a couple of nights out with some pretty heavy and sustained heeling. That's not a huge amount of water, right? Still, I want to figure out how to experiment and isolate.

I am still nervous about my engine mount: the bolts on the transom just seem a little...flexy or floaty, like my worn out jam cleats in the cockpit. I can't see the bottom set of bolts from the inside because because of the platform in the dumpster where the gas tank sits. How do I access that area?

The other thing I wonder about is the deck-hull joint. I can't find much with forum search on resealing that... is that a standard bit of upkeep for a 40 year old boat? Can someone point me towards some good instructions (or is my Don Casey book specific enough?) From inside the dumpster, the side of the seam I can see looks rough and moldy.

To conclude this novice ramble, do any Seattle-based Catalina 25 owners fancy coming aboard and help put a wise and seasoned eye to my boat's idiosyncrasies?

Thanks for any thoughts.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9082 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2014 : 10:20:50

One method for identifying the sources of leaks is to draw several parallel lines inside the hull with colored chalk, perpendicular to the suspected flow of water. Line up the spots where the lines get washed away, and you have a clue as to where the water is coming from.

Regarding the hull-deck joint, in the absence of rain, that would only be a factor if you're consistently "burying the rail"--are you?

Another suspect in boats of your vintage are the "to-hull" fittings, which were not installed as proper "thru-hulls" Do a Search on that, including the archives--you'll get an eyeful or two.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2014 : 11:14:24

Wrap a few layers of paper towels around the "to-hull" fittings before you leave the boat and do not expect rain before you return. If the paper towels are dry, the fittings should be okay. If wet, replace them. Keeping the windows covered with a tarp will help reduce window leaks from rain, and will help protect your wood from sun damage.

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