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All Rope Halyard on Wire Sheaves

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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/04/2014 : 17:23:54

Hi all,

I've spent a good past 3 days on David breaking him in and getting him warmed up for the season with a battery of conditions including a 30+ mph day today with just the 110% up and have come into an issue I hope someone who has dealt with knows the answer...

David has not been converted yet to all rope halyards and just got a bend in the cable that jams in the sheave. We went up there and freed it but it jammed again.

I am about to order an all rope halyard with shackle and was wondering if (at least for now) the sheaves that came on the boat for the 1/2 wire halyard will accomodate the 5/16" rope?..

And is it possible to get just an all rope main halyard with shackle online? (just the main)

Thank you!

Picture for proof!

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/04/2014 : 17:40:16

Catalina Direct has the sheaves for line, wire sheaves are very narrow.: http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/34_407/masthead-sheave-for-line.cfm

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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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707 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2014 : 18:01:59

I see that, but was wondering if it's possible. Will the rope just jam, or not work?

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islander
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Response Posted - 05/05/2014 : 04:27:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">And is it possible to get just an all rope main halyard with shackle online?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sure can, E-Bay for one. You just need the size and length. I'm guessing that what you want to do is run a rope halyard through the wire halyard sheave for now to get by for a while. That I don't know and will leave that to somebody else that has wire halyards.

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redeye
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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2014 : 04:35:01

<< Will the rope just jam, or not work? >>

1/4 inch line works. Works for your line but will eat at the cover of the line. Shorten the life of the line.

Your sheaves are probably chipped up so you are probably looking at dropping the mast and changing out the sheaves with the proper sheave size for line at some point.

Edited by - on

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2014 : 05:05:08

On my boat, I found that the sheaves were cracked when I checked them. Replaced them with ball bearing on main Halyard and plain bearing on jib. Jib is on furler. Also. While doing that I decided to add sheaves for four lines and changed out the single exit blocks on the mast base to double. One for topping lift and one for future spinnaker.

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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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Response Posted - 05/05/2014 : 05:27:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
1/4 inch line works. Works for your line but will eat at the cover of the line. Shorten the life of the line.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The standard halyards are typically 5/16" correct? If so, would I need to purchase "stronger" 1/4" to compensate?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
Your sheaves are probably chipped up so you are probably looking at dropping the mast and changing out the sheaves with the proper sheave size for line at some point.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I thought it was possible to swap sheaves with the mast up.

The plan is to drop the mast after this season and put in a halyard plate to run the lines to the cockpit. I will have to get new halyards then either way and plan to replace all the sheaves as well.

If I can messenger up a 1/4" line as suggested and run that for a bit I would be a happy man.

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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/05/2014 : 06:31:03

<>

Good luck with that. More than tricky with a vertical position. Usually something gets dropped in the process.

I'd suggest simply running your old line ( if you have it )till you replace the sheaves and then get new line.

Or run 1/4 line through the old sheaves till you change out. Some people find 1/4 line to be fine, and some racers prefer the lower weight. Most find it hard on the hands.

ANyhoo... I ran 3/8 line ( on my old sheaves for a few months ) and found sheaves from Catalina Direct that fit my masthead after talking with them over the phone. Had to order twice, the first ones were the wrong size that I had ordered myself, then I sopke with them and got the right size.

Also good to inspect the masthead well when you drop the mast.. my forstay/backsta? pin was damaged.

Edited by - redeye on 05/05/2014 06:53:01

islander
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Response Posted - 05/05/2014 : 10:30:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If I can messenger up a 1/4" line as suggested and run that for a bit I would be a happy man.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
As long as 1/4" won't bind up like Ray said, I would use it to buy your self time or to get through the season. Sure it will be a little harder on your hands but its your mainsail halyard. Its a line that you don't have to work all day. Put the sail up, Tie it off and go sailing. Dropping the sail doesn't need your hands. Use gloves and some Sailkote on the slugs and if its uncomfortable a cabin top/Mast winch to help out. I wouldn't buy expensive line because the line might get chafed so at the end of the season you can fix the sheaves with the right line and use the 1/4" for something else like reefing lines.

Edited by - islander on 05/05/2014 10:31:59

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2014 : 13:24:12

1/4" sta-set X or possibly even stayset would likely work in the short term. You can sail on the genoa if the halyard breaks. I use 1/4" vectran, but that is way to expensive to run over the wrong sheaves. It would have been to expensive with the right sheaves if it hadn't been on sale when I was looking.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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1144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2014 : 15:04:21

I would splice 1/8" dyneema to a double braid rope (or Tenex) using one of the splices found here:
http://l-36.com/halyard.php

1/8" dyneema is extremely low stretch and plenty strong for the Catalina 25. It is easy to splice and will fit on the wire sheaves.

Edited by - on

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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707 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2014 : 17:06:36

I swung by Annapolis Performance Sailing after work and picked up 75 feet of 1/4" vectran. As a temporary to the temporary fix in order to get back out there, I reversed the line and the shackle on the jib halyard so that it can operate the main (which makes sense since the winch is on that side). I ran the vectran through the spinnaker crane to raise the jib and voila! This should work for this week until I can get my buddies back down here to help climb the mast again in order to free the jammed cable.

I know a temporary, temporary fix sounds pretty rediculous but when your goin out 4+ times a week you'll do anything to keep it Rollin! Sail on!

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BCG-Woodbury
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Response Posted - 05/05/2014 : 21:04:44

I did mine last year with the all-line kit from CD that comes with new sheaves. It turned out that my sheaves where actually for line and I had wire halyards that kept jumping off. The line sheaves have a "U" shaped groove but the wire halyards need a "V" shaped groove. Since the change all is good except for more line stretch when raising the mast.

Regards,

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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/06/2014 : 04:20:38

<< swung by Annapolis Performance Sailing after work >>

Well then we need to be asking you how to do things... talk about getting good advice.

<< +4 times a week >>

Sweet!

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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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Response Posted - 05/06/2014 : 04:36:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye

Well then we need to be asking you how to do things... talk about getting good advice.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You can't have too much advise/help! I am more than grateful for everyone on here who has helped me through these sometimes trivial issues.

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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/06/2014 : 05:43:45

<< sometimes trivial issues. >>

Well.. anyhoo... let me know if you remove one of your sheaves and take it into aps for a ball bearing sheave. I'd like to know which is the match for the external halyard, 4 sheave setup with the plate separating each pair.

Selden, harken, holt, or ronstan?

Not bad having APS as your local supply store

Edited by - on

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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707 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2014 : 06:52:36

Would it be difficult to remove one without the other accidentally falling? I would like to do this work on the bosuns chair ideally.

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awetmore
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Response Posted - 05/06/2014 : 07:14:10

Do you have internal or external halyards?

I don't think you could remove the sheaves from external halyards while climbing up the mast. If you have internal halyards then it is more likely to be possible. The two sheaves side by side sit on one spindle and you can't remove one without removing both.

I personally would only do this when the mast is down. It's not that much work to drop a C-25 mast and you can have it down and back up in the same day.

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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/06/2014 : 07:14:20

<>

That would be a slick trick in my opinion and I've heard the same from others. The sheave, the bearing, the divider, the second sheave and bearing are held in place by the pin with pretty close tolerances around it all... problem is you can't really get your fingers around any of it. Pull the pin and the sheaves drop. You'd hafta put a line around each sheave to hold them up as you remove the pin. and then possibly the divider.

I'd just like the give you a heads up on that... I remember it was a pain to get everything lined up properly with the mast down, laying sideways.

Your experience may differ and if so let us know how it went.

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DavidBuoy
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Response Posted - 05/06/2014 : 07:52:25

I most likely wont be doing this for a couple to a few weeks because I set for the moment. Next step is get the jammed wire and and replace with thin diameter line and see if that all runs. Ideally not dropping the mast till fall or spring. Just had the rig tuned and tensioned and not really looking for any down time. (though inherently there will be some)

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awetmore
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Response Posted - 05/06/2014 : 08:36:26

You can mark all of your turnbuckles to get the rig tune very very close to where it is now if you do drop the rig. Marking the rig plus good notes with a Loos gauge will get you back to the same spot too.

Edited by - awetmore on 05/06/2014 08:37:03

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/06/2014 : 08:52:49

<< not really looking for any down time. >>

I wouldn't be very worried about running 1/4 line.. I think it will run fine and no real hurry to replace the sheaves in my opinion..

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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Response Posted - 05/07/2014 : 09:29:25

Keep in mind the "V" shape of wire and "U" for line, there will be more abrasion. Vectran is hard enough that I don't think it will jam in the "V". As best as I can measure without disassembling the masthead, the line sheaves for external halyards are a hair under 0.5" and about 2" in diameter. 5/16 on my genoa just fits.

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DavidBuoy
Admiral

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707 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2014 : 05:21:43

Tried out the temporary rig yesterday, it was a little confusing at first because I had been doing it one way so many times. Other then that it worked out well. It was helpful having a calm day to try it out the first time. It was nice having the main halyard on the port side so that I could get tension on the winch. Best sail shape I've had since owning the boat!

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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/09/2014 : 07:33:43

Yepper... I had to order these [url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/34/masthead-sheave-line-c-25-c-27-c-28-some.cfm"]Sheaves[/url] for mine. Good price and they have worked just fine.

From Catalina Direct .... I love the description: Some.

External halyards. 4 sheaves

listed as .413 wide.

Now I see these on the website....
[url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/11/masthead-sheave-ball-bearing-c-25-c-27-c-28.cfm"]Ball Bearing Sheaves[/url]

Listed as .42 wide...

Edited by - redeye on 05/09/2014 08:09:16

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 05/10/2014 : 09:28:05

Ray, "Some" applies to the C-28 only, according to the text in ther sheave listing.

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