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LED Running Light Fixtures

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4306 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/23/2014 : 18:43:54

As anyone come out with LED running lights for our size boats? I want the entire fixtures, not just the bulb conversion.

I did the bulb conversion a couple of years ago on my bow light and it's constantly flickering on and off (mostly off).

What about a <u>reasonably</u> priced LED anchor light?

I've seen some really bright LED running and anchor lights on bigger boats in my marina but the fixtures appear to be too big to fit on our boats.

Edited by - on

Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2014 : 20:55:59

I just use a garden variety solar light on the stern and one in the boat as a night light They seem to work great. I have installed new LED light fixtures inside and a deck light bulb while running DC and AC in the cabin. I could not believe how limited the internal electrical was. Some of those runs are really hard to do! I might change my running lights to LED but probably not the fixtures. Chief

Edited by - Chief RA on 05/23/2014 21:03:32

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2014 : 05:29:16

Have you contacted the maker of the running lights on your boat now? Perhaps they have a reasonable replacement.

Here's an option:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARINE-BOAT-RED-GREEN-BOW-LED-NAVIGATION-LIGHT-WATERPROOF-2-NAUTICAL-MILES-/271325847975?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item3f2c47e1a7&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARINE-BOAT-WHITE-STERN-LED-NAVIGATION-LIGHT-WATERPROOF-2-NAUTICAL-MILES-/271394846380?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item3f3064b6ac&vxp=mtr

Ebay also has strip led's that can be attached to the bow for the red/green lights that are very inexpensive.

Edited by - dmpilc on 05/24/2014 05:49:09

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2014 : 06:58:25

I agree with not just replacing bulbs. The LED specific fixtures are much more durable since everything is permanently fixed in place.

Aquasignal Series 34 lights (http://www.aquasignal.com.au/series-34/) are a good size for a Catalina 25, are very bright, nicely made, and seem to be pretty durable so far. I have one as my bow running light, and have a stern one ready to install as my stern running light. My anchor light is made by Hella and is a NaviLED 360, but it looks like Aquasignal has that covered now too.

I'm going to be at the boat today and can take a photo of how I mounted the Aquasignal 34 bow running light onto my bow pulpit. I had to make a mounting bracket using some Sea-Dog Line hardware.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4306 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2014 : 07:19:10

My boat has the Aqua Signal standard running lights on it now. I'd like to see some pictures if you don't mind.

Edited by - on

awetmore
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Response Posted - 05/24/2014 : 16:05:53

I forgot to take a photo today, but will try to remember to grab one tomorrow.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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5397 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2014 : 21:07:31

Word of caution: red-green foreward running lights consisting of a red lens and a green lens using a single 2 nm incandescent bulb is rated as legal for a bow running light. Taking the same fixture and replacing the incandescent bulb with a white 2nm LED so filtered (red&green) probably will NOT be USCG approved. Why?
Incandescent bulbs put out a broad spectrum of light, so that there is relatively similar amounts of light power across the entire spectrum (with a peak in the yellows for tungsten), however white LEDs are created by using a UV LED plus white phosphors like a fluorescent tube. White LEDs have low power in the green spectrum, while warm LEDs have some power in the red spectrum, neither filtered light intensity is sufficient to be visible from 2 nm away.
Instead, manufacturers have built special-purpose LED red-green lights that have no filters and two separate LEDs - a red one and a green one. These are rated for 2nm.

Edited by - on

Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2014 : 05:02:54

Nice info Bruce! I didn't know the spectrum specifics but was aware that there could be a problem. I changed my interior lights and deck light to LED but not anchor or running lights. Chief

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2014 : 06:19:30

My Anchor light has worked about 2.5 years now. It's a shame Bebe lighting went out of business.. When mine fails I think I'll probably make another one of similar design ( leds in PVC sealed in resin. )

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2014 : 06:22:19

quote:
Originally posted by Chief RA

...I changed my interior lights and deck light to LED but not anchor or running lights.

Me too, but I also changed the anchor light, since it's the one that's most likely to stay on all night without the motor running. That energy efficiency is important to have in the anchor light.

Edited by - on

Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2014 : 06:37:59

Rick: I agree that amp draw on the anchor light is a problem. Actually I will only have mine on if running at night along with my running lights. I have been using a solar light on the stern for an anchor light. That sure doesn't drain my batteries! Chief

Edited by - on

Voyager
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5397 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2014 : 07:22:54

I use LEDs in the cabin like many folks do, and my stern running light and anchor light are white 2nm LEDs. I agree that the anchor light should have low conumption.
On Passage the steaming light (aka bow light) and red-green running light are both incandescent. Since you only run the steaming light when motoring it doesn't have to save power.
I would eventually like to replace the foreward running light to keep power consumption down, but I sail after dark so infrequently it's not a pressing problem and the stern LED compensates.

Edited by - on

awetmore
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1144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2014 : 07:41:08

Anchor + running lights while under way is not an approved navigation lighting scheme for a sailboat. You should only use the anchor light when at anchor.

If you use a solar anchor light make sure that it meets the 2nm visibility requirement.

For Gary:

I'm using this light (Aquasignal 34 bicolor, black housing):
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|65136|2312550|2312557&id=1802347

I have it mounted on this clamp:
http://www.fisheriessupply.com/sea-dog-line-rail-mount-brackets

I had to modify the clamp slightly to fit the bolt spacing of the Aquasignal 34. If I remember correctly I extended the slots in the square/diamond shaped plate.

Then it just clamps onto the bow pulpit where the original light was mounted.

I don't know why Aquasignal doesn't make a LED replacement with the same shape and mounting pattern as the Aquasignal 25 lights that were stock on the Catalina 25. Those were very popular running lights and a drop in replacement would be very nice.

Here are a couple of photos of my setup. Don't copy my wiring, it should be a lot cleaner and tuck in behind the light. The wire in my bow pulpit is a few inches too short for that and I haven't pulled a new one.

I don't remember if my Catalina 25 had a mounting tab for the Aquasignal 25 welded on or clamped on, so maybe this wouldn't be as clean on the 25.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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5397 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2014 : 07:42:21

Chief - while a solar LED saves power, the key issue for an anchor light is (1) where you place it and (2) whether is visible 360° around.
You should run the LED up on a halyard as high up as you can. Make sure you also rig a downhaul.
Some LEDs are all around while others are spotlights. You should have an all around.

Of course the other issue is light power output. You can hang an all around LED portable light from the halyard which may be brighter. Camp stores sell them.

Edited by - Voyager on 05/26/2014 07:44:08

Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2014 : 07:57:35

Bruce: The solar light I use is 360. bright, and runs all night. I suppose I could get it up higher. Presently it is above my bimini and mounted on the solar panel rack, shows up well. Chief

Edited by - Chief RA on 05/26/2014 07:58:41

Davy J
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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2014 : 14:44:43

quote:
I did the bulb conversion a couple of years ago on my bow light and it's constantly flickering on and off (mostly off).

I had this problem too. The solution, for me, was to bend the connectors slightly inward, then wrap a cable tie around them aft of the replacement bulb. No more flickering.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4306 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2014 : 15:41:34

quote:
Originally posted by Davy J

quote:
I did the bulb conversion a couple of years ago on my bow light and it's constantly flickering on and off (mostly off).

I had this problem too. The solution, for me, was to bend the connectors slightly inward, then wrap a cable tie around them aft of the replacement bulb. No more flickering.

That should work. Thanks for the suggestion!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4306 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2014 : 15:50:42

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

Word of caution: red-green foreward running lights consisting of a red lens and a green lens using a single 2 nm incandescent bulb is rated as legal for a bow running light. Taking the same fixture and replacing the incandescent bulb with a white 2nm LED so filtered (red&green) probably will NOT be USCG approved. Why?
Incandescent bulbs put out a broad spectrum of light, so that there is relatively similar amounts of light power across the entire spectrum (with a peak in the yellows for tungsten), however white LEDs are created by using a UV LED plus white phosphors like a fluorescent tube. White LEDs have low power in the green spectrum, while warm LEDs have some power in the red spectrum, neither filtered light intensity is sufficient to be visible from 2 nm away.
Instead, manufacturers have built special-purpose LED red-green lights that have no filters and two separate LEDs - a red one and a green one. These are rated for 2nm.

The LED I'm using has red and green LED's and looking at it up-close and far away the colors seem to be very normal looking and is very bright.

From what I understand the fixture and the type of bulb are approved as a unit and the fact I'm using a LED in place of an incandescent bulb in a fixture designed for an incandescent bulb is probably technically not legal but it is definitely much brighter than the incandescent bulb it replaced so I'm sticking with it until I can find an approved LED fixture.

I'm thinking about going with the Aqua Signal Series 43 fixtures. They are a lot bigger (and more expensive) but I'm not too concerned about the size, I just want to be seen.

Edited by - on

Voyager
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5397 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2014 : 17:03:46

Gary -
If you have a forward running light unit with separate and discrete red and green LED lamps, that should work well and be visible from a good distance off. It's the manufacturer's responsibility to obtain certification by the USCG or other authorities.
The single-bulb type fixtures with red and green colored lenses are the troublesome types for LED lamps. When the light coming from a single white LED passes through a colored filter, it is anybody's guess what the brightness profile will be in the red and green ranges. Add to that variability in the formulation of the LED fluorescent material vs the color of the red and green plastic or glass filters and there's no guaranty the two are compatible. Separate, bright, unfiltered red and green LEDs like yours should work fine and should easily win approval for navigation purposes.
Those who still use filtered incandescent bulbs in Coast Guard-approved fixtures should be fine as well.

Edited by - Voyager on 05/26/2014 17:15:15

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5397 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2014 : 17:13:50

Chief - that configuration for the solar LED sounds fine, however, if the law were persnickety, they could give you a hard time.
The key factor is that from a short to medium distance, other boaters should observe an all around light up high above the boat. This image represents a boat at anchor at night - both the height and the swing of the mast.
Contrast that to a boat with a light 10 ft above waterline - it would look like the rear end of a powerboat viewed in such a way that the red-green was hidden by the cabin (viewed from directly behind).
Sure - would other boaters see this as another boat? Probably. But they might not perceive it as a sailboat at anchor. This is why height is important.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4306 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2014 : 17:40:30

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

Chief - that configuration for the solar LED sounds fine, however, if the law were persnickety, they could give you a hard time.
The key factor is that from a short to medium distance, other boaters should observe an all around light up high above the boat. This image represents a boat at anchor at night - both the height and the swing of the mast.
Contrast that to a boat with a light 10 ft above waterline - it would look like the rear end of a powerboat viewed in such a way that the red-green was hidden by the cabin (viewed from directly behind).
Sure - would other boaters see this as another boat? Probably. But they might not perceive it as a sailboat at anchor. This is why height is important.

Here's the LED I'm using which I just read on Dr. LED's website is USCG approved 2 NM light for Aqua Signal fixtures so I guess I am legal.

[url="https://www.doctorled.com/store/nav-LED-bulb/LED-nav-bow-bulb/Bi-Color-Polar-Star-25"]Dr. LED[/url]

Click on the press release icon at the top right for details on the USCG approval.

[url="http://www.doctorled.com/p3.htm"]Dr. LED USCG Approval[/url]

Edited by - GaryB on 05/26/2014 17:50:00

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2014 : 18:19:57

FWIW, [url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/2575/bulb-only--led-upgrade-for-white-navigation-light.cfm"]here's the LED[/url] in my anchor light. It came in Dr. LED packaging, but I don't have the OEM part number right now, so I've linked CatalinaDirect, where I purchased it.

<center>

</center>

[url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1569_339/led-cabin-light-round-plastic-wred--white-leds.cfm"]Here are the interior replacement fixtures[/url] that I installed. It's really nice having the red LED's, since they draw so little power that I just turn on the red and leave it on the whole time we're sailing at night. The color fidelity of the white LEDs is OK, but not fantastic. They're a little on the cool side.

<center>

</center>

And finally, a couple weeks ago I replaced the C250 incandescent spots over the dinette [url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EKKJE2G/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1"]with these[/url]. They protrude about 1/16" below the fixture, but they provide very high quality light with good color fidelity - much better than any LED's I've tried before.

<center>

</center>

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/26/2014 18:23:16

Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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USA
191 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2014 : 06:38:21

OK guys, I give up! I will get a LED for the anchor light. I sure do not want to use the high draw standard bulb. Chief

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2014 : 07:53:36

<< I will get a LED for the anchor light. >>

The promise of the bulb never burning out was one of the main reasons I wanted an LED. Difficult to change out a bulb on top of the mast. When I first got the boat, I would loose a bulb every big storm after the mast next to me at the dock would whack mine and kill the bulb. Later I learned to alternate forward/aft docking next to another sailboat, and now I always have a slip next to a powerboat.

Anyhoo.. 2.5 years and no bulb change.

Edited by - redeye on 05/27/2014 08:04:08

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4306 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2014 : 18:09:04

Over the years I've heard several people mention they run a LED lantern up the mast and use it as an anchor light.

While it might be OK if you can make sure the lantern stays on the water side of you mast and you are close to shore but if you are far enough out from shore that boats could approach from any direction be aware that the mast is blocking a significant portion of that 360 degrees of light and you risk getting hit.

Edited by - GaryB on 05/27/2014 18:11:03

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2014 : 19:50:23

FWIW, I bought [url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045XJ4A0/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1"]one other led, for the deck light[/url]. This one's a bit of an experiment, since it's not weather proof. But it is recessed up in the fixture so it should not see rain directly. And I'm in freshwater, so corrosion would hopefully be a little less.

One other tip for you guys - for festoon bulbs like the anchor light, I put a small dab of high temperature conductive electrical grease on the contacts to knock down the corrosion. When I first got the boat the anchor light was dead, but the bulb was not burnt out and it was seated properly. It just had poor contact due to the corrosion. That's a problem that could affect LED or incandescent light, so it's best to address the corrosion proactively.

Edited by - on

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