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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Goto cam cleat with fairlead

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/05/2014 : 16:15:34

Wow, at the rate this symmetrical spinnaker project is moving, I just might fly the dumb thing by end of season

Anyhow, I have the halyard, sheets and pole downhaul coming back to the cockpit. The pole topping lift will exit the mast at the base and come up the side to cam cleat. I'm searching for a cam cleat with a fairlead to quickly secure this line.

Anyone have a goto brand and/or style for this application?

I guess I'm also wondering if this is the correct piece of hardware - perhaps the line will be subject to coming out of the cleats

Edited by - OJ on 08/05/2014 16:20:29

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2014 : 15:12:12

Camcleat with fairlead on top should work fine for the topping lift. Also, do not ever put a stopper knot in the end of a spinnaker halyard or either sheet/guy. If things go really south flying the spinnaker, you will want to be able, if necessary, to instantly release the halyard or sheet and let it go completely to get the sail back in the boat.

Edited by - dmpilc on 08/06/2014 15:15:34

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2014 : 17:47:17

quote:
Originally posted by dmpilc

. . . if necessary, to instantly release the halyard or sheet and let it go completely to get the sail back in the boat . . .

Yes, I have pulled more than one spinnaker out of the water - a brand new one once, over the transom, with bottom paint on it!

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2014 : 19:52:04

Have you considered a Lance Cleat? I like them.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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1144 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2014 : 07:54:47

Harken 150 is my go-to cam cleat. It is easy to release, nice to the line, and they aren't expensive:
http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=5735

The Harken 375 fairlead is a nice addition to the 150 for lines that you need to be able to uncleat and recleat from anywhere in the cockpit:
http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?sku=375

If your downhaul needs to be eased when you adjust the guy you might consider putting a cleat for the downhaul on either side of the cabin top. This makes it easier for the person who is adjusting the guy to also release the downhaul. Look around at boats which are raced in your marina, this is a pretty common setup and it won't be hard to find an example.

If your downhaul goes from the base of the mast straight to the pole then it won't need to be adjusted to adjust the guy and you can keep the rigging simple.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2014 : 08:43:46

The current plan is to attach the down haul to the outer end of the pole, down to a block on the anchor roller then back to the cockpit via furler fairleads attached to the stanchions. So far I've succeeded in not drilling a single hole in fiberglass to attach any blocks.

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pastmember
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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2014 : 09:33:19

Putting it to a block at the stem will make it pull the pole forward rather than down. It is never a good idea to allow a pole to ride against the forestay and your rig will be trying to do this all the time.
The spinnaker pole down haul should go to a bridle with a ring in the center. If you put your downhaul from the pole end back to the mast base then you are pulling in to the mast too much and not down to the deck enough. I vote my provisional ballot: use the bridle on the pole and take it back to the mast base so the forces do not change with the point of sail.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2014 : 21:26:48

quote:
Originally posted by OJ

The current plan is to attach the down haul to the outer end of the pole, down to a block on the anchor roller then back to the cockpit via furler fairleads attached to the stanchions. So far I've succeeded in not drilling a single hole in fiberglass to attach any blocks.

That means you'll be doing dip jybes instead of end for end jybes. They are unnecessarily complicated for a 25' boat.

Do you have a deck plate under your mast step that allows you to add more blocks easily? Catalina Direct sells a nice one that is made by Garhaeur. You can put there to route the downhaul from the center of the pole directly to the base of the mast. This isn't the best angle, but on a small boat it works pretty well (and has the advantage of not requiring downhaul adjustment when you adjust the guy).

You can also float a block on line anchored to both bow dock/anchor cleats. I built a little spliced dyneema loop for doing this (using one of those low friction fairlead style blocks at the center), but haven't used it yet. On my Pearson this puts the floating block just forward of the pole's centerline, but I think the bow cleats on a Catalina 25 are farther forward.

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OJ
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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2014 : 07:37:42

After absorbing the above two posts I may try both approaches. The forward most stanchions may be positioned close to the center ring of the downhaul bridle. I could attach floating block hardware to the stanchion bases.

Great ideas Frank and Alex, thanks. Yes, I have the deck plate.

Edited by - OJ on 08/11/2014 07:47:45

pastmember
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Response Posted - 08/11/2014 : 12:49:40

Reflecting on the bridle: it would actually deliver the load path to the end of the pole. The primary benefit of the bridle is to facilitate the end for end gybe.

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awetmore
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1144 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2014 : 18:06:59

There are two bridles in the second option that I mentioned.

There is a bridle between the ends of the pole that puts a ring on center. That is to facilitate end for end jybes.

There is a bridle between the bow cleats on the boat with a block or ring on it. That is to allow you to move the downhaul under the pole (instead of coming out from the base of the mast) for a better lead angle without permanently adding a padeye to the foredeck. I don't have a photo, but can take one next time I'm at the boat.

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OJ
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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/13/2014 : 09:08:46

quote:
Originally posted by awetmore

I don't have a photo, but can take one next time I'm at the boat.

Kind offer Alex, I'm all eyes!

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awetmore
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Response Posted - 08/14/2014 : 08:53:03

This is how I normally do it. The lead angle isn't great (compression on the downhaul pulls the pole back more than it pulls it down), but it lets me adjust the guy without adjusting the downhaul:

This is a setup that I'm experimenting with. I spliced a special dyneema bridle with an Antal ring in the center and two eyes on either end that fits around my bow cleats. This pulls the pole down (good) and forward (not so helpful). I might just add a soft padeye to the foredeck instead.

The same line is used as the tack line on the asymmetric spinnaker. I just reroute it to a block that lives under my furler.

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OJ
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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2014 : 09:21:09

Thanks a bunch Alex!

I will digest this and see how close my forward stanchions fall in relation the center of the bridle.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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1032 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2014 : 15:50:21

I've used these with the Harken 150...
http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=5198

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Merit 25
Deckhand

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13 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2014 : 07:39:18

The 150 cleats are great but a little large, might want to try a size smaller. If not, the 150's would certainly work.

The lance cleat is typically used as a halyard cleat on the mast to save the mastman's fingers if the pitman is on vacation or taking a nap. Bang the halyard up, cleat it, then the pit can catch up. Whatever cleat you use for the halyard should be off center a bit. So when the pit takes up the slack in the cockpit the line is pulled out of the cleat and is free to run. J80s, 105s and 24s all use this system. The 105s have since gotten rid of them in their rule book.

For the topper and downhaul, mine are run to the cabin top and accessible from the cockpit. Makes it easy to adjust the downhaul when cranking on the guy. There is a trade off between a downhaul at the center of the foredeck as opposed to the mast base. Mid foredeck gives you a much better pull down but will require you to ease it before squaring the pole back. At the mast base, the load is MUCH greater, but allows you to not have to ease the downhaul before pulling back on the pole.

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Merit 25
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13 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2014 : 07:41:32

Here's a photo of the system the 36.7 uses on the mast
http://apsltd.smugmug.com/gallery/9095828_yA9iP/1/606016806_iS9UW#!i=606018258&k=Wpr7Knz&lb=1&s=A

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