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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

upgraded rudder

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/25/2003 : 18:19:11

The 3rd generation rudder arrived today and is mounted. The lower pintle was about an inch longer than the upper and the pintle spacing was exactly correct so cutting the lower to match the upper was the only way I could get the rudder mounted. I pondered the reason for the longer lower and came up with a couple of possibilities...but the rudder wouldn't mount otherwise.

It is a whopping 17.5 inches shorter than the 2nd generation beaching rudder which I was really happy with after ballancing but it has developed a lot of horizontal cracks below the rudder head which may be gel coat cracks only... who knows. The heavier beaching rudder will be added to the V berth ballast for a spare.

I checked and the prop cannot get into the rudder.

Yet, is to add an eye strap or arm for the soft link attachment. One of the things I have noted with the 2001 Honda, is that the soft link is so far back on the motor (tied to the cowl clasp)that it angles forward to the beaching rudder head which gives the motor less turn ratio than the rudder. To keep the ratio the same, the tie points for the soft link need to be about the same distance aft. There isn't another good pick off point on the motor... so this leaves the rudder as the better option to adjust the aft distance to match the motor. This may not be too critical but at full turn it does leave the motor about 5-8 degrees short of the rudder turn so we'll see if there is an easy solution. I don't want to make the soft link complicated, nor do I want to give it up.

BTW... I took the advice this past weekend and using a cut off tool, cut the corner off the casting on the steering arm and gained about 5-7 degrees more starboard turn. So, the turn of the motor now closely matches that of the rudder in both directions, where previously the starboard turn came up short. This is where I noticed that the turn ratio was not matched... as the now relieved motor didn't take advantage of the additional clearance when operated by the softlink.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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lhooks
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2003 : 20:21:33

Arlyn,
Could you give us a picture of your modified (cut-off) steering arm?

Leonard Hooks 250WK #580
"Jessica"
Waco, TX

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2003 : 21:56:59

Not a very good pic as the camera wanted to focus elsewhere but if the pic is studied for a moment, the tiller arm appendage is close to the wall of the anchor locker and I've marked the portion to be cut off. As can be seen, I didn't cut a lot off to gain several degrees of turn. Perhaps 3/4 inch across the widest part. The cut portion finishes out to run parallel with the locker wall.

<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/tiller.jpg" border=0>

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
R&R N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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frankr
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2003 : 08:12:59

Are you describing the pin length? if so lower pintles are usually longer to allow one to line up with the lower unit(usually under water) first, then with it aligned the top pintle can be more easily aligned.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2003 : 16:19:11

Frank, Yes thats what I meant... figured there was a reason... but I didn't know it. Thanks

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2003 : 12:20:20

Willy,
My 1995 Catalina 250 WB has a kickup rudder, maybe the original rudder, there are other posts from people with far more knowlege on that subject. You might want to search the archives for more info.
You are not going to get this boat into 20" of water, your biggest concern is the keel under the boat in the raised position hitting bottom, I also can't see removing the rudder to manuver in shallow water with just the motor, your better off juming off the boat and manuvering it by hand. Also consider any additional weight in the boat
increases the draft. Stick with the knowlege on this forum and others will offer additional advice and don't discount this boat just from what you have heard.
"Bear" C 250 WB #089

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2003 : 13:05:28

The '95 was produced with the 1st generation rudder...there have been two upgrades since. The 2nd is a long rudder and the third is 17 inches shorter but broader and balanced.

The 1st had inadequate lift, the 2nd wasn't balanced and the third solves these two problems. However, the third is not produced in a beaching configuration likely for two reasons. One, there had been some problems with the beaching rudder and Catalina felt it was too troublesome to continue with. Second, likely it was felt that the third was not too much longer than the centerboard draft so no beaching rudder was necessary.

The draft on the third is about 30 inches abt 10 inches more than the center board up draft. If the boat your buying has a spade rudder and you must have a beaching rudder, there likely are some beaching rudders that are available from those who upgraded.

A beaching 2nd generation can be balanced by modifying the rudder head. However, a beaching can not be helmed with the rudder any thing but fully down. The swing back ability is only to offer forgivness for a grounding, or to allow motor steering or handing the boat in shallow water.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2003 : 16:38:06

So, 30" is the actual draft of this boat? 20 to the bottom of the boat with the center board up and 30 to the bottom of the rudder?
That seems like quite a bit of difference from the 18" advertised. Please don't misunderstand me, I would never expect to sail in water that skinny, but I need to get in and out of a very shallow head of a small bay to get started. I have seen the boat at the dealer and like the quality but had I purchased it based on the company "line" I would have ended up with a boat that I would not have been able to sail without dramatic modification. That or been stuck, as are some folks on our pier - sailing only during high tide. When I called the factory today, I was told there was no such animal as a kick-up rudder for a 250.I am thankful that you guys have set me straight but I have to admit it makes me a little dissapointed with the marketing folks from Catalina. I guess I will suspend my purchasing activities until I see if I can wrangle an original kick-up rudder. Arlen, is that what you are calling the beaching rudder?
Bill

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willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2003 : 16:38:14

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2003 : 19:08:42

Yes Bill... a beaching and kick up rudder are one and the same. The beaching 2nd generation is 17" longer than the 3rd generation so you can imagine it is quite deep at slightly less than 4 feet draft. That was part of the problem... the 2nd generation was deeper than the wing keel and took some hits by wing owners with the blade design.

I'm not sure where the 18 inches of draft came from... 1'8" is advertised on the brochure...and that is 20 inches. However, that is with ballast. Draft is about 4" less with ballast pumped out which is not hard to do.

Catalina normally does a good job with customer service...

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.