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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Outboard Decisions

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pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/05/2014 : 09:38:22

I recently bought a 1978, C-25 with an outboard bracket, but no motor. I already own several outboards (long story), one of which is a Merc 9.9, four stroke, long shaft, elec. start with external speed and shift controls, but no tiller. I would like to put it on the Catalina next spring, but would like to know if anyone else has experience using an outboard without a tiller on a C-25. I don't see that it would be much different than having inboard power, but I realize it would be giving away some directional control by relying on rudder alone for steerage, particularly at slow speeds getting in and out of a berth.
I also have an Evinrude 8.8, two-stroke that I love, but it's a short shaft, and I suspect not as good for this application.
Appreciate any thoughts and advice on mounting the controls in the cockpit if I do go with the Merc.

<i>sv Allegro
mv Pacific Harmony</i>

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2014 : 09:54:22

somew have had success with adding a linkage of teh o/b to the rudder

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2014 : 14:30:35

The short shaft motor will not work on a C-25. A few guys have added external controls to their outboard on a C-25, and most seem to like it. One possible drawback is that the cockpit space between the seats is not particularly wide, and the motor controls could become shin knockers.

Edited by - on

Heartbeat
Navigator

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USA
161 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2014 : 15:06:15

I would think it would work. I have a tiller on the motor, but rarely turn it.

Matt

Edited by - on

blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2014 : 17:07:43

in tight spaces like a marina i wouldn't be able to safely manoeuvre without turning my engine, with an inboard engine you can always rotate the boat by giving short bursts to the throttle and deflect the water column with the rudder, kind of like a jet ski nozzle, with an outboard you have nothing to deflect the water column, i wouldn't use an outboard i couldn't turn (although if your slip is easy to get to or you're at a mooring it could be an option)

2 cents

Edited by - blanik on 11/06/2014 10:17:47

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2014 : 18:15:47

While I never had a rudder-outboard linkage, I dont think I would have liked it for general purposes--I liked the motor in a static position. For close-quarters maneuvering, I used the outboard tiller, but did not want it linked. For example, when backing with the rudder turned to starboard, I might use a forward burst from the motor turned to port in order to kick the stern over without accelerating the boat.

What kind of areas do you sail in? Big chop or not? Will you be going to places where the motor is likely to be used to get there, or is the motor just for getting out to raise the sails and back in after dropping them? Note: Most cruisers have to admit that they end up under power more than half of the time, due to lack of wind, too much wind, or wind on the nose for where they need to get to in a limited time.

My choice for the C-25 was (and still would be) an extra-long (25") shaft 4-stroke with a long tiller and a shifter on the tiller or the front of the motor. To me, the cockpit is too narrow to have controls mounted on the side of the seat--I don't even like that on 30-footers. Honda 8 high-thrust was my choice. Tohatsu is less $$... Yamaha didn't have a pull starter on their electric start models--the deal-breaker for me.

If you sold both motors, could you justify getting something else?

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/05/2014 18:20:17

Jan Briede
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2014 : 09:35:20

I love having the outboard with a tiller when maneuvering in tight quarters of the marina I'm at. While I understand that a linkage would be great for long stretches of motoring, I would not want one unless you can remove the linkage instantly and use the tiller for extra control. My life is so much easier when entering my slip than what some with an inboard are going through, in particular in high wind conditions or when they are not very experienced.

I am sure that the no-tiller would work, but I agree with Stinkplotter, sell the two motors and buy one with a tiller. I have a Yamaha pull start that is now 4 years old and it starts after two pulls.

Edited by - on

pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2014 : 10:05:22

Great responses here!!
Yep, I'm one of those cruisers that will admit to the 50% motoring ratio; not so much when you're just day sailing, but certainly the case when you need to get to an anchorage or port. A lot of my sailing on this boat will be on Lake Pepin, but I also expect to haul it up to Superior from time to time, so the extra long shaft sounds appealing.
Good point regarding the inboard's prop wash advantage, particularly if you have to make an emergency turn-around in a fairway, or leave a berth with the wind coming over the stern. Thinking through both those scenarios convinces me it's probably important to have a tiller on the outboard.
And, yes, Stinkpotter, selling a couple of my outboards is likely the course I'm going to pursue at this point. Will probably keep the Evinrude because I have another use for it. But I also have a 15 HP, 4 stroke Nissan that I need to get rid of, so I should be able to sell or trade it for something more appropriate for my needs. Think I'll try "Swap Meet," and see what happens...
Thanks to everyone for responding. This has been an interesting and helpful dialogue...

Edited by - on

blanik
Navigator

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Canada
210 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2014 : 10:29:45

exactly pearson39b, i remember high wind days where the ability to turn my engine and give it a burst of throttle was the only way to control the boat, even in the lake it saved my ass a couple of times, the front wind was so strong that the lightweight C25 bow would catch into the wind and turn with it, i really needed to get out of there (a small bay with rocks at the end) so turning the engine and giving it full throttle (a 6HP 2-Strokes) was the only way i could keep the bow into the wind and move forward... once your speed is over a knot or two you can leave the engine centred, the rudder will do a great job but as soon as you hit a 2-4 foot high front wave your speed will drop and the bow will start to turn...

the outboard-rudder linkage is a big no for me, the instances where you need to control them separately (mainly when backing up) are far more numerous than those where you need them linked (easy to do manually)

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2014 : 13:56:24

One more thing about a linkage... When under way, I prefer to "trim" the outboard direction so the boat's helm is perfectly neutral, and then leave it there. (I set the steering damper just tight enough to hold it but still make steering reasonably easy.) This way, steering is very light and the helm can be left unattended for periods of time. I'm convinced a linkage would substantially increase effort and attention to the tiller.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/06/2014 13:58:07

WesAllen
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2014 : 19:44:10

I have the Merc 9.9 Big Foot (read that High Thrust w/power lift and electric start) and love it. I have the controls in the cockpit and like it but there are valid points both ways. As for the tiller handle, I don't have it and don't miss it. The lever for locking the motor from turning is pretty easy to use and only have needed it couple of time and just reached back and twisted the motor. Big thing is the Extra long shaft and high thrust. Motored from Key West to Everglade City once with it (flat water) and used only 9 gallons of gas in 14 hours. (3/4 throttle)

Just my experience.

Wes

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2014 : 19:10:15

I run a Tohatsu 8hp, 4 Stroke. Most of the time I don't need to mover the motor, tiller/rudder is fine. Sometimes I need to maneuver tightly around the dock so it helps. I'm on a lake so there is no current to deal with. As long as the boat is moving, the rudder should be fine. A linkage to the outboard would certainly do the trick. When motoring in open water, the motor can stay fixed. If you already have the 9.9, I'd go with that for now.

Edited by - on

pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2014 : 09:06:44

Does anyone have pictures, drawings or description of a steering linkage between the outboard and rudder? It an interesting idea, but I'm pretty sure I would want it to be easily detached and re-attached for close-in handling only. Not keen on the idea of impeding the rudder full-time.
Also appreciate the outboard model choices I'm reading about here. If I do decide to buy a new motor this all helps with the selection process.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2014 : 09:27:20

Do a search for Arlyn's Soft Link in the C-250 forum. Or just Google "outboard rudder linkage" and you'll see Arlyn's setup as well as some "hard links". What doesn't attract me to any type of linkage is that the outboard steering damper would need to be completely loose, and I liked it tight enough to hold a straight course without touching the rudder. Then the rudder provided one-finger steering. and in close quarters (we had a VERY tight slip with prevailing cross-winds), I could use the motor independent of the rudder.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/08/2014 09:29:21

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2014 : 11:37:28

I had a Nissan (Tohatsu with Nissan markings) 9.8 hp electric start with the 25" shaft on our 1984 C-25. It was a great motor, perfectly suited for the boat.

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pearson39b
1st Mate

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93 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2014 : 15:56:25

Found the link and might have to think harder about doing that kind of setup. Looks relatively simple and easily dis-engaged, Hmmmmm...

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2014 : 06:20:43

Found this:
http://www.iboats.com/Auxiliary-Outboard-Steering-System-Sailboat-Clamshell/dm/cart_id.247861931--session_id.405444179--view_id.1082545

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2014 : 09:11:38

You might want to hold off until you have some experience with the boat, especially if you get a motor with a tiller handle. If you end up selling your Merc, you probably don't want to have holes in it, and if you're buying a fancy new motor, you should make sure you really want holes in it and/or your rudder.

Edited by - on

capelyddol
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2014 : 09:51:26

Couldn't agree more, Dave. I like to feel my tiller when I'm sailing and from the look of that device - it says it'll turn the motor whether tilted or not - it's not going to be too easy to disengage it. I say get a motor with a tiller - or, surely it's possible to buy a tiller for the Merc 9.9? Surely that'd be cheaper than buying a new motor?

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 11/09/2014 : 10:20:28

quote:
Originally posted by capelyddol

...or, surely it's possible to buy a tiller for the Merc 9.9?

Maybe, but not surely... Somebody looked into that for some remote-controlled motor (not necessarily a Merc) and found it wasn't available. It might have to do with the throttle linkage, etc.

Edited by - on

Rainwater
Deckhand

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22 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2014 : 19:29:33

I have an older yamaha 9.9 with the tiller handle. I like being able to turn the motor independently of the rudder. Especially since I back into our marinas pump out station... it gives me nice precise control of the boat in that situation. My motor also has a nice center locking feature where I can lock it in a straight position for when I am motoring in open water, but when I'm in the marina I usually use the motor for direction control since I'm moving at idle speed

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