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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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?? Tiller Master auto pilot ????

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JOHN SAINDON
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/07/2003 : 20:11:35

HI all: just got a "Tiller Master" (free bee)autopilot..i'm looking for a manual
and schematic any technical data...comments ??? should I toss it !!
the original owner reported that it had some intermittant failures.

best regards:

john "Stuart Little" cat 25 srfk

GERARD A. SAINDON

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2003 : 22:13:23

Here's a link to the manual,

http://www.electricmarine.com/web/images/PDF/tillermaster%20manual.pdf

If this unit is old and having problems, you may be better off buying a new unit rather than installing this unit and taking a chance.

<img src="http://www.sailnet.com/images/homepage/promo/newfp/largead_raya12004_noremote.gif" border=0>

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc32b3127cce92e981259d130000001010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2003 : 22:53:52

...or this one for $279 at Sailnet (or less if you are patient).

<img src="http://www.sailnet.com/store/prodimage/large/simtp30.jpg" border=0>

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2003 : 00:34:02

Yes, to be fair I should have mentioned the Simrad TP10, but I'm a little biased since I own the Autohelm.

In the way of performance, these two units are pretty close. The big difference between the two autopilots is the ST1000 has a digital display(compass data), NMEA In/Out(GPS/Plotter interface), and is remote control capable. I've found the remote to be more of a novelty than practical, but it came free with my unit when I bought it last year.

So if the GPS interface and digital display are important to you, then pony up the extra $115.00 or so for the Autohelm, but if you aren't interested in these features, then save the $$$ and get the Simrad.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc32b3127cce92e981259d130000001010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2003 : 09:27:38

I was onder the impression that both of the low end tillerpilots from Simrad and Raymarine weren't strong enough for a C25 in anything but mild conditions, and that you needed to get the next model up.

Am I wrong?

I may get one with my tax refund

I want one that is easy to use (read: don't have to read a huge manual and be a programmer) can take a beating, and backed by the manufacturer if something goes wrong

Thanks--you folks are the best

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2003 : 10:38:22

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
...the original owner reported that it had some intermittant failures.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Sounds like it might jibe you while you're in the head, or up on the foredeck. <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2003 : 13:17:40

"I was under the impression that both of the low end tillerpilots from Simrad and Raymarine weren't strong enough for a C25 in anything but mild conditions, and that you needed to get the next model up. Am I wrong?"

What do you consider mild conditions and how strong do you need it to be? I've had mine engaged in some pretty good breezes and varying sea conditions without any problems. The key is balance.

My low end autopilot would be capable of steering a 50ft boat as long as the boat was correctly balanced and the pressure on the tiller was minimal. Conversely, a higher end autopilot will struggle on an unbalanced 22ft boat with excessive weatherhelm if the tiller felt like there was a barn door attached to it. On my boat, I have the upgraded rudder and it, along with balanced sails, provides a tiller that only requires a couple of fingers to operate. Now if my tiller required a two-handed grip by a Viking oarsman, then that would be a different story.

Firstly, one shouldn't have any autopilot engaged if the weather and seas require that a human have a hand on the tiller, because no matter how much you spend for your autopilot, the autopilot still cannot anticipate situations, only react. No matter the price, it will not know that the boat is about to go up the face of a tall wave or fall off. It will not see the 40ft powerboat wake that is approaching the port quarter or detect the 25 degree wind shift.

If the wind and weather conditions are making it difficult for the helmsman, it will only be more difficult for the autopilot and it shouldn't be used. If the wind and weather are not making it difficult for the helmsman, then it shouldn't be a problem for the autopilot.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc32b3127cce92e981259d130000001010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2003 : 13:42:37

Don,

So I guesse you are saying that the Raymarine 1000 is sufficient for my 25. I do have the balanced rudder. I am really surprised that the 89WK is easier to steer, and is more balanced than my 22. Lot's less weatherhelm. Also, the rudder is more responsive.

So I'll guesse I'll just have to keep watching for a sale on the Raymarine. I don't necessarily want all the bells and whistles, but I am very impressed by all the stories of Raymarine taking care of customers problems quickly.

Once again, thanks for your input

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

Dennis Pierce
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2003 : 15:02:37

TillerMasters were made in Newport Beach back in the late 50's, early 60's. You can tell if it's really old one by checking the compass tower and seeing if it is the top of an aluminum beer can (honest)!

I did countless trips on a C-27 and C-30 from San Diego to Avalon using a "Tilley". Before you blow big bucks on a chinese plastic unit, check the wiring and connections. The "intermediate" interuptions were caused by loose connections 99 out of 100 times.

Motor around and check the ability of the unit to hold a course and then fiddle with the compass knob to get it dialed in to the boat compass reading. If you do opt to buy a new unit, compare the size of the steering arm and the servo motor of the "tilly" with the one you buy and you'll wonder why do be pay more for chinese crap?

Dennis Pierce
Gypsy Witch #1719

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2003 : 21:26:06

So which one of the current tiller pilots out there are Chinese? Simrad or Raymarine?
I have noticed lately that anything made in China is of inferior quality. For example sears Craftsman power tools, which used to be a pretty good value for a mid priced tool, are now mostly Chinese, and are not nearly as good as they used to be.

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2003 : 22:18:00

"So which one of the current tiller pilots out there are Chinese?"

My Raymarine autopilot was built in England.

As for the Craftsman tools, I agree that quality is lacking here. I grew up in a Craftsman family. My father still has a 1950's Craftsman radial arm saw, among other "vintage" all-metal Craftman power tools(drills, sanders,...etc) that are still kicken. But not so many years ago he started buying Dewalt, Porter Cable, and others because he didn't like the current quality of their power tools. A few years ago, my wife bought me a Craftsman miter saw and this thing was pure crap that went back to the store.

As the saying goes, "They just don't build em' like they used to!"

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc32b3127cce92e981259d130000001010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2003 : 22:56:39

Oh No Don,
Please don't tell me that your tiller pilot was made by Lucas.

I'm sure you heard the old saying about how a Lucas three way switch works: off, intermittent, and off

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2003 : 23:36:10

I'm a little young to directly remember Lucas Electric's, but I have heard of them referenced before concerning malfunctioning motorcycle parts. I would hope that their parts aren't in my autopilot! <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc32b3127cce92e981259d130000001010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2003 : 08:30:11

Just Kidding about Lucas. When I buy one it will be a Raymarine. Just cant decide on the 1000 or 2000

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

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JOHN SAINDON
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2003 : 19:42:48

Don: thank you for the "TILLER Master" link. I got the manual
downloaded with acrobat reader it was a PDF file but acrobat took
1.5 hours to download. anyways...the manual is helpful...

thanks again:

John Saindon...freezing in Norfolk va.......

GERARD A. SAINDON

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2003 : 20:48:32

You're welcome.

In my younger days, I briefly lived in Norfolk. What is considered freezing down there anyway?...50 degrees? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc32b3127cce92e981259d130000001010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 03/11/2003 20:49:16

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2003 : 21:03:02

I inherited a tillerpilot with Orion last year. Fiddled with it to fix it--no go. Sent it back to Raymarine, requesting repair. Phone call from them: sorry, charlie, no parts any more. They offered me a new Raymarine 1000 at dealer cost and I took it, fair winds, ron srsk #2343 Orion SW FL

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