Association Forum - Haul out reveals keel problem...

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Haul out reveals keel problem...

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

michael.anda
1st Mate

Member Avatar

USA
60 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/05/2016 : 09:32:58

Besides known cable problem, sounds like there is significant play near keel pin. Looking to scrap boat. Any thoughts on the subject?

dasreboot
Admiral

Members Avatar

804 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2016 : 09:55:34

play in the keel to pin or the bearing attachment point to the boat

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

michael.anda
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2016 : 10:29:42

Haven't heard yet. Assume the worst, though.

Edited by - michael.anda on 04/05/2016 10:33:48

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2016 : 10:56:25

It's not unusual for there to be some play at the keel pin. CD sells a spacer kit, that I bought for my boat. It consists of pads that are secured with adhesive to each side of the heel close to the keel pin and the hull so that when you lower the keel, the pads reduce/eliminate wobble in the keel.
Another type of play can occur if the hole in the keel where the pin goes through has become elongated. That will require more extensive work, but it is still not scrap-the-boat problem. Remember, the swing keel is 1,500 lbs of cast iron. It's very durable!
The only keel play problem I can think of that might be fatal for the boat is if there is a problem with the keel hanger hardware, i.e. the 2 pieces that actually bolt to the hull.
If it looks like you will need to drop the keel, consider replacing the keel pin, the 1" dia bronze pin that goes through the keel and is held in place by the hanger hardware. That piece is not expensive and should be replaced if the pin has any bow in it.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Edited by - dmpilc on 04/05/2016 10:59:19

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2016 : 10:57:58

Here is a recent thread on this subject:

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29754

Don't know how helpful it will be since you said you were having someone else do the repairs. But it looks like it can be done.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

dasreboot
Admiral

Members Avatar

804 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2016 : 10:59:47

if it just the keel wobbling on the pin, it can be fixed. you can replace the two bushings and the pin. catalina direct also makes a bushing that can be installed in the keel to take out the slop. Lots of members have done it. look through the forums. if the two pin bushings are wobbling, then that is a different problem. They all wobble on the pin without the new bushing, mine did.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2016 : 13:37:49

Keel pivot components.

Keel lifting hardware.

Note: Any used boat you buy is going to need something. The older and cheaper, the more they'll need. There's an inflection point in the resulting cost below which you can't have a seaworthy 25' sailboat. Many of us have found that out. (Of course, if you kept one of these boats for 30+ years, you'd face the same thing--maybe putting as much in as you did to buy it new.)

Dave Bristle
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage before going over to the Dark Side (2007-2025); now departed from Mystic, CT, and boatless for the first time since 1970.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 04/05/2016 18:20:26

michael.anda
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2016 : 13:47:50

1" diameter pin hole on keel is now about 3".

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2016 : 14:35:03

Welder could probably fill and redrill or a machine shop could probably do something for you. Your call.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

michael.anda
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2016 : 16:55:54

Is 3" far outside the norm?

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2016 : 18:02:35

quote:
Originally posted by michael.anda

1" diameter pin hole on keel is now about 3".

Sounds like too much for a normal bushing... Maybe a bushing within a bushing (within a bushing)?

From Catalina Direct (in my first link above):

quote:
Wear to the pin or keel is a symptom of keel hanger castings which are too small. Bushing the worn keel repairs the symptom of the problem but ignores the problem itself. To repair the problem, the keel hanger castings must be replaced with a new retrofit. The retrofit includes castings which extend farther inboard to prevent the keel from moving from side to side at the pivot point.

At the same time, add the keel centering spacer kit. The spacers eliminate the excess space found at the top of every Catalina 25 retractable keel. The keel hanger casting kit and keel centering spacer kit must both be installed in your boat together or you risk causing other, potentially serious problems. Installing both kits eliminates future wear to the keel pin and keel itself and reduces the load on the keel trunk.

Dave Bristle
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage before going over to the Dark Side (2007-2025); now departed from Mystic, CT, and boatless for the first time since 1970.

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2016 : 18:37:56

I found my spacers to effect the same result and protect the casting from being abraded by the keel.. Some people have reported that the CD spacers had simple fallen off by the next inspection. As for Michael's quandary, I would suggest getting a cost estimate for a repair and then decide on the course of action. A three inch hole will need a custom solution to fit a 1 inch pin, but it might not be all that expensive. Weld filling and drilling for a SS or silicon bronze sleeve to protect the softer filling and cast Iron would likely solve the issue. Got any thermite lying around?

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

dasreboot
Admiral

Members Avatar

804 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2016 : 04:41:35

instead of the spacers, didn't someone use a trailer bumper to eliminate play?

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2016 : 06:21:16

I looked into that but decided that there was no real way to make it work. I'm open to new approaches if mine fails (at least 5 years old now), but my tunnel vision doesn't let me see anything but CD's solution and mine.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle

TCurran
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2016 : 03:34:52

quote:
Originally posted by dasreboot

instead of the spacers, didn't someone use a trailer bumper to eliminate play?

Not sure what you call it, but I used the rubber "V" that the bow rests in near the trailer winch. I placed it near the aft of the keel tunnel so when the keel was up it secured it. But I also used the CD spacers on the front of the keel to keep it from wobbling while down.

Tom Curran
1981 Capri 25 Hull #101 "Dirty Debbie"
1988 Watkins 30
PAFB, FL

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4321 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2016 : 18:35:09

quote:
Originally posted by michael.anda

Is 3" far outside the norm?

There's a guy named Chip Ford that has documented ALL of the repairs to his C22.

One of the repairs was fixing the hole where the pivot pin goes through the keel. As I remember his was pretty bad too. He had a shop do the repairs and everything was good as new when they were done.

Read through his site and you'll find a lot of good tips on maintaining and repairing our boats. The C22 is not that different than our C25's. If nothing else it's good reading.

-- >> http://www.chipford.com/

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

dasreboot
Admiral

Members Avatar

804 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2016 : 07:39:40

quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

quote:
Originally posted by michael.anda

Is 3" far outside the norm?

There's a guy named Chip Ford that has documented ALL of the repairs to his C22.

He says he has 40k in the boat. What?! He could have bought a new c22. Not to mention lots of other fun boats.

Wants to sell it for 25k ... nope wait ... now it is 12k. good luck with that!

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.