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triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/14/2003 : 17:57:34

Last year at the end of the summer I had my keel cable break. Luckily, I was in about 4 feet of water in my slip. In the interim between getting a new cable (I now have a spare) I winched the keel up off the bottom using a spare jib sheet, and using the main self tailing lewmars. They held up fine, but I noticed that a trickle of water came out from under one of the winches. While I am sure that it was due to water being expressed from the reenforcement at the winch plate attachments, the winches are rock solid and it doesn't look like I have gotten any water into the fiberglass that might rot out the area.
I am, however, worried, and will take the winch down to check this spring and remount it again. Anybody had any problems with water seeping into the fiberglass at the winches?

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2003 : 19:21:13

triley,

I'm sorry to hear about your keel cable breaking. I'm glad you figured out the part about using the jibsheet winches, and that it all worked out as well as it did for you.

As for the water producing winches, I'm just now reassembling my Lewmar primary winches. As my helper was removing the heavily bedded winch bases from the coamings, water came pouring out from under each winch base, down the mounting holes, and into my upturned face down below. It seems that the winch bases were sealed well enough for the center cavity to retain a pool of rain water.

Like you, I was also concerned about keeping the winch mounting bolts from leading to rot in the plywood coaming core. While the winches were removed, I ...<ul><li>Drilled each mounting hole out to twice its previous diameter.</li><li>Made up 3/16" thick epoxy & fiberglass backing plates for each winch (but <i><b>not</b> drilled</i> for the winch mounting bolts).</li><li>Attached the backing plates to the underside of the coamings with a single short screw.</li><li>Painted the plywood core inside each hole with WEST epoxy.</li><li>Poured each hole slightly over full of WEST epoxy thickened with microfibers.</li><li>After curing, carefully leveled the top of each hole with a sander.</li><li>Redrilled the mounting holes through the center of the epoxy plugs.</li><li>Slightly countersunk the top of each mounting hole to form an O-ring of sealant.</li><li>Reinstalled the winches with new machine screws with polysulfide sealant on the shafts, fender washers, lock washers, and Nylock nuts.</li><li>And of course, reassembled the rest of the cleaned and lubed winches.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle></li></ul> Although it's too soon to tell, I hope this makes for a stronger installation, and reduces the possibility of any water leaks into the core or the cabin interior.

-- Leon Sisson

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triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2003 : 23:42:48

Thanks,

The last thing I want is a winch to pull out under tensioon from genoa or spinnaker, though that is not likely for a few years. I appreciate the detail.

Tom

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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2003 : 19:11:29

For us swingers who live in perpetual fear, could you be more specific as to the wire failure, as: how old was the cable; were there any "meathooks" in evidence to give any warning; did the swage pull out; was there any precipitating circumstance like grounding out, or a swell,etc---you get the drift. Thanks, ron srsk Orion #2343 SW FL

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triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2003 : 14:16:48

Ron

In terms of specifics of the failure. There were some curious circumstances, and some things I should have done that I hadn't.

When I bought the boat in March I failed to ask how long the cable had been in place. It did not, however, have any meathooks. The cable stilll doesn't have any.

After it broke, it was clear that it broke at the swage where the cable met the fork fitting for attaching it to the keel. After it had failed, I noticed a light and tiny ring of rust there. I should have noticed it before.

The break occurred during the same night that some young vandals broke into every boat at our marina. They did a little damage to the companionway boards, the lock and hasp and the trim on the hatchcover and rifled through everything in the boat- looking for booze we believe since any booze on other boats was at least tasted.

My keel winch handle was moved, and they may have tried to tighten the keel which was all the way up, but they may not have either, and it may have broken from old age.

Luckily, the boat was in less than 5 feet of water and the bottom caught the keel. I got there the next morning and winched it up off the bottom until I could get a cble and replace it. It turned out to be easily replaced while the boat was in the water, but I didn't have the stamina to hold my breath long enough to do it and a young guy in the club volunteered to do it ( I am 60, and he is 40, so young is relative in this context). I wish I knew whether they did it or not.

Our marina is in relatively open water with some great chop coming in every now and then when the wind is right, so it could have happened from the wear it got there. The turning ball is OK,but I changed it anyway.

So that is what I know. I feel badly that so many specifics are missing. How old was the keel cable? Did the vandals actually tighten it up? Would that have done anything? How many nights and days did we have really rough condidions at the marina? I just don't knlw, but I know that age, really rough waters and overtightening the cable can all be factors!

Tom

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 03/20/2003 : 20:58:31

Tom, thank you for a thorough reply, ron srsk Orion #2343

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Jay Schkloven
1st Mate

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USA
84 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2003 : 11:05:25

I am replacing the old cable this weekend because on the last outing in Oct, 2002 I noticed, as I was bringing up the keel, 3 broken strands of wire on the keel cable. The broken strands were about 3 feet from the end that attaches to the keel. I do not have any idea how or why they broke. I am the only one to use the boat and am very careful bringing up the keel. I have also marked the cable, for the last 10 years, with yellow paint to indicate the correct time to stop cranking and this helps me determine when to stop cranking and from bring the keel up too high. The cable was only one year old. Lesson: check the cable as you bring it up from time to time!!!!!!!

Edited by - on

Jay Schkloven
1st Mate

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USA
84 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2003 : 11:06:31

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triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2003 : 17:47:47

Some gopod ideas. Thanks. I think I will mark my cable and I will check it often.

Tom

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2003 : 17:08:11

When I was a swinger I often thought about the amount of wear the swing keel mechanisms suffered just from boat wakes. I kept the boat in a reasonably active creek and it seemed to me that with the weather's effect and boat wakes that the swing was in a state of constant flux. Thinking that it was possible to maintain a design optimally under these conditions was wishful thing at best. Or so it seemed to me. I think that the only safe way to campaign a swinger is on a trailer. Once in the water it was subject to a persistance of natural forces. Somehting that I doubt Catalina calculated In the swing design.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT

Val Bisagni]<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df11b3127cce94709c5ff2e90000000010" border=0>

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