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jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/16/2016 : 07:50:39

Has any one replaced their lifelines? What led you to do it - did you order from CD? CD advises changing lifeline every 10 years...I can't decide if that is sound advice or just self serving on their part...

Jerry

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 08:07:45

Hi Jerry,
Your questions requires a lot of "it depends" answers... It depends on whether the boat is in salt or fresh water. It depends on whether your boat is in the "elements" year round or has covered winter storage. And so on. The biggest "it depends" is whether you can see any rust on the cable or the plastic jacket (especially at points where the plastic has split near stanchion posts. If you can see rust, the lifeline is rusting and does not have the strength it did when new... it's time to replace for sure.
Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 08:52:17

Also, like shrouds and stays, the most likely failure point, especially in salt water (where of course you are), is inside the swaged terminals where you can't see it. And like stays and shrouds, the time you'll find out about it is when you most need not to have a failure. I feel like CD's 10-year guideline is a little conservative, given that lifelines generally don't take the stresses of standing rigging, but 15 years might be a reasonable max in salt water, and 20 is probably beyond... The trouble is that now that you've thought about it, if you don't do it and have an unhappy failure, you won't be able forgive yourself!

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage before going over to the Dark Side (2007-2025); now boatless for the first time since 1970 (on a Sunfish).

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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1484 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 10:10:20

Hi Dave - yup...ya nailed it - I've decided to do it, just taking the poll to learn other's experiences. I was told that the standing rigging was just a year old when we bought Whisper, and it looks fine...the life lines, not so much - one of the swagged fittings has split about 20% f it's length - time to go...

Jerry

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5429 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2016 : 20:13:28

Dave, speaking of rigging and lifelines, being 2016 already (where does the time go!?!?!) I suppose it's time for Passage to get a new set. I replaced the forestay two years ago. But that leaves the back stay and all six shrouds. Whew! $$$$. Maybe an excellent winter project!!!

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2016 : 09:04:54

Bruce: I just checked... I replaced the full standing rigging in 2004.

Jerry: That split swage is almost certain evidence of corrosion causing swelling inside. Good move.

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2016 : 13:43:01

Some people replace wire lines with Amsteel. Will require some modest line splicing skills though . . .

And here's some debate

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f55/amsteel-for-lifelines-and-17306.html

1989 C25 TR/WK, #5822
1973 McVay Minuet 19
1975 Jester 12
1981 C25 SR/SK, #2428
1981 C22 SR/SK,
Tanzer 16
Sunfish

"There is nothing, absolutely nothing half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." Kenneth Grahame

Edited by - OJ on 08/17/2016 13:43:53

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5429 Posts

Response Posted - 08/17/2016 : 20:19:07

Anybody know what a full set of Catalina Direct standing rigging cost on a C25 standard rig? Any good alternate providers available for conventional steel cable?
OJ thanks for the discussion on cruiser forums but I don't want to chance it.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1800 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2016 : 08:54:24

Bruce -- I used Ocean Rigging (oceanrigging.net) who are now in Bridgeport at Captain's Cove. While I have a tall rig, as I recall replacing all of the standing rigging including turnbuckles was @$700. That was a bit more than the CD kit, BUT I had a trusted rigger inspecting everything along the way and that was the real value.

Peter Bigelow
PO - C-25 TR/FK #2092 Limerick
Rowayton, Ct
Port Captain: Rowayton/Norwalk/Darien CT

Edited by - bigelowp on 08/18/2016 19:56:49

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2016 : 09:26:21

Ask for a quote from Strictly Sail in Cincinnati, OH. They have been Catalina specialists for over 30 years and very reliable. https://www.strictlysailinc.com/

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5429 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2016 : 14:47:13

sorry I hijacked this thread, but the damage is done now...
I just placed my order with CD and for all shrouds and backstay, the damage was a bit over $600. Those guys are great though, I mentioned that I have a Hood furler and the sales agent suggested I get a halyard restrainer to prevent the jib halyard wrapping on the forestay. Apparently, that's what happened when my forestay got slightly mangled two years ago. The halyard wrapped on the forestay then as the roller furling spun the halyard unwrapped the wire.
The halyard restrainer pulls the halyard away from parallel with the furler and makes a 45� angle pulling the halyard away from the forestay. For $6.00 I reckon it's worth it just not to have to replace yet another forestay.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2016 : 18:18:42

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

. . . the sales agent suggested I get a halyard restrainer to prevent the jib halyard wrapping on the forestay. Apparently, that's what happened when my forestay got slightly mangled two years ago. The halyard wrapped on the forestay then as the roller furling spun the halyard unwrapped the wire . . .

Yikes!

FWIW, I installed a halyard restrainer when I swapped out a Selden furler for a Harken. I don't remember all of the details but I ended up removing the restrainer. After achieving the correct amount of tension on the forestay, the restrainer became unnecessary. Just my experience . . .

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2016 : 21:21:51

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

...the sales agent suggested I get a halyard restrainer to prevent the jib halyard wrapping on the forestay. Apparently, that's what happened when my forestay got slightly mangled two years ago. The halyard wrapped on the forestay then as the roller furling spun the halyard unwrapped the wire...

Bruce: Were you not leading the halyard down through the block on the front of your mast, just above the full-hoist level for the swivel? Is it not there any more?? That's a halyard restrainer. Some PO to me apparently didn't use it, so the forestay was a little messed up when I bought the boat. I always used it and never had a halyard wrap with that Hood furler you now own. I'm wondering what you're adding to that. (...or what you can buy for $6. What's there is some multiples of that.)

OJ: You might be taking a risk. The restrainer helps insure that the top of the furler swivel, to which the halyard attaches, doesn't turn when the sail is furled or unfurled, by pulling the halyard toward the mast to stabilize the top of the swivel. I don't see how forestay tension relates to the issue. Unless your furler manufacturer (I'm not familiar with the Harken unit) says you don't need the restrainer (most that I've seen, other than CDI with their built-in halyard, say you do), I see no point in eliminating it.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/19/2016 21:48:22

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5429 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2016 : 22:11:52

Dave
[edit] Thank you for making it clear that you took the necessary care to ensure that the furler was properly installed. I'm happy to say that no critical structural or working element or component on Passage was shortcut or compromised when I purchased her from the gent who originally bought her from Dave. I've seen a lot of kludges, and I'm proud to say Passage is not one of them.

Thinking about it again, especially in light of your description, I seem to recall the block on the front of the mast just below the head. It's fuzzy in my memory whether I re-routed the jib halyard through the restrainer when I checked the sheaves for replacement or not. As I recall, I noticed the halyard restrainer and thought it might have been extra "insurance" that the jib halyard did not foul.

Little did I know its true function, so I'll look tomorrow to see what's what. Either way I'm committed to doing the job and a little more knowledgeable about that so when I replace my standing rigging this winter, I'll know better.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 08/20/2016 06:26:05

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4029 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2016 : 06:21:39

quote:
what you can buy for $6

Possibly a restrainer that is really a large pad eye. This is what I have but is made of Bronze. And I agree, If you don't have one ether a block or pad eye type you are running a risk of a halyard wrap.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5429 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2016 : 06:31:20

Scott, that is exactly what he recommended. padeye.

It was $15.99 ...

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 08/20/2016 06:32:14

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9089 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2016 : 07:15:06

Bruce, what you've already got is probably even a little better.

[/hyjack]

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4029 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2016 : 12:40:35

Bruce, If there is a block like Dave is describing I would use that. Possibly you don't have the halyard running through the block and that's why your forstay was damaged when we took your mast down. My Furlex manual says that there has to be a minimum of 10 deg angle between the halyard and the forstay to prevent a wrap so if Daves block creates that a block is better than a pad eye. Less friction and possible chafe.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 08/20/2016 13:20:04

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5429 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2016 : 17:52:58

Tomorrow will tell the tale

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5429 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2016 : 18:09:49

So I braved the elements today - the NWS had called for thundershowers and crazy winds - but in fact the weather was very nice - mid 80s, sunny and humid, but not too humid. Perfect boating weather.

I therefore had an opportunity to check the furler halyard today and to see what the angle is that it makes with the furler. In fact there is a halyard preventer installed and it is in full effect. However, the halyard looks to be almost parallel to the furler. According to the Catalina Direct sales agent, the angle should be more like 30 or 45 degrees. Perhaps the problem is that I have not raised the Genoa up high enough on the furler. Maybe I'll have to readjust the sail.

Passage's Mast Top Showing the Jib Halyard rigged in the Halyard Preventer.

This picture shows the halyard, the halyard preventer, the furler head slider near the top of the mast and the potential that exists for (1) pulling the genoa further aloft and (2) for the halyard to accidentally wrap because the jib is not raised up high enough.

Now back in the spring I thought I had raised the furler as far as it would go. Looks like I'll have to give it another try.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 08/21/2016 19:53:43

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4316 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2016 : 18:52:10

8 - 10 degrees.

Page 25 of the Harken Mark IV Furler Manual -- >>> http://www.harken.com/uploadedfiles/Product_Support/PDF/4416.pdf

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - GaryB on 08/21/2016 18:52:39

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5429 Posts

Response Posted - 08/21/2016 : 19:40:21

Gary,
In the Harken guide they show two variations of a Halyard Restrainer - one that goes on the forestay like a doughnut to keep the halyard far enough away from the forestay. I do not have anything like that - and the other is a small block mounted to the mast. This keeps the angle between the halyard and forestay non-parallel - or it is supposed to. This is the type that I have.

In my case, however, since the head of the Genoa is not raised up high enough on the furler foil, the angle remains nearly parallel. This must be remedied.

Since the weather was really windy today (SE ~ 15kts), I did not go out or adjust the furler. On a quieter day I will readjust the furler halyard to raise it up slightly. That should make all the difference.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4029 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2016 : 04:49:16

That Harken manual calls for a minimum of 8-10 deg. My Furlex manual calls for a minimum of 10 deg. I suppose more would be better and hopefully raising the sail will increase your angle. It looks like you have plenty of room to add a restrainer under the block if raising the sail doesn't give you a satisfactory angle.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

dasreboot
Admiral

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804 Posts

Response Posted - 08/22/2016 : 06:02:24

If you aren't having halyard wrap issues, then it should be fine. i used a short pennant between the head of the headsail and the furler bearing. this allows it to rise higher on the foil and gives a better angle with the halyard.

Todd Lewis
Eowyn 87 TR/WK C25 #5656
ARWEN 84 TR/SK C25 #4031
www.mainsailsailingschool.com

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