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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2016 : 09:47:50

quote:
Since starting power is more critical to me

I'll just add that my current boat has a 27hp Westerbeke diesel. I am using two Sam's Club Duracell Group 31 AGM batteries connected in parallel. I have never encountered any difficulty in starting the motor. Even after the batteries have been run down overnight. The AGM's are dual purpose, as opposed to flooded deep cycle batteries.

I do carry an extra starting battery that is not connected to the system just in case, but have never needed it.

In fairness, the boat carries three solar panels, around 250 watts total. So they do tend to get topped off during the day.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2016 : 12:09:31

Greetings Davy. Look to be in business finally tomorrow. You gave me two resource recommendations last March, I found the one, Sailing With Confidence, but was unable to locate the second. Do you recall the title and format? I left my note at our northern residence I think.

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2016 : 12:23:04

Greetings back Michael, I'm sure you are glad to be back down here....

Sailing with Confidence is one. The other is Learn to Sail with Steve Colgate. Both are Bennett Marine productions.

Also, if you decide you do not need all four of those batteries, I might want to purchase one from you. Let me know, I may be passing through on my way to the Miami Boat Show in February.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2016 : 12:48:06

Check with me before you leave. Florida is great. So are the granddaughters back north. Hopefully they come for a visit in March.

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2016 : 13:01:31

Bought a Suzuki 2.5 today for my tender. Seemed to me to be the more efficient option.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2016 : 14:40:30

That will save the arms and back. In NY putting an engine on a dink makes it a motorized vessel and has to be registered. You also have to carry all the safety gear. Is Fla. the same?

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2016 : 14:49:36

I think so. But not sure.

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2016 : 15:08:57

Now I'm sure. Boat must be registered.

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2016 : 15:15:08

ANY motorized propulsion vessel needs to be registered in Florida.

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3466 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2016 : 18:04:24

I deleted my previous response since one or two statements I made were not clearly stated and also because the originator then stated that he was probably only going to use 2 batteries vs 4 on the boat and my main concern was directed more toward addl thoughts to consider when utilizing so many batteries - That battery management should be investigated..

I agree that when you add a second battery you double the capacity. I have that arrangement on my boat. However, all that have this arrangement, there is some concern that as the batteries age, they may not age/weaken/diminish capacity equally and there is also the possibility that a cell may go bad in one of the batteries. When one battery is weaker than the other, the stronger battery winds up charging the weaker battery until both batteries are recharged. Some will manage the batteries by switching the battery switch between positions 1 and 2 and others just leave it in the "Both" position and then others buy a separator or combiner to assist with battery management.

My concern was that having 4 batteries on board seems to me to increase the potential that one battery that is weaker or has a bad cell, could reduce the life/capacity of all. So, in summary, I just thought that some investigation/web searching is warranted regarding battery management and the pro/con of wiring in a separator or combiner to assist with maintaining total capacity.

Personally, I had no issues with the 2 flooded batteries that I had on board which still were functioning after about 7 years use between the PO and I. I now have 2 AGMs and hope to get similar service life. The PO did not have a combiner in the circuitry and while I considered installing one, I did not. My solar panel has maintained the batteries year-round.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 12/28/2016 18:17:29

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2016 : 20:13:18

Well, 4 batteries it is. One pair will charge via the outboard's alternator. The second pair will get charged via solar panel(s), 110 cord from dock, or as I envision, a gas generator.

Starter/house setup batteries fit starboard berth behind water tank. Port berth will house battery pair serving kitchen electronics and what have you. Cigarette lighter inverter pictured here.

Each battery pair will have a Wirthco Battery Doctor isolator.

http://www.wirthco.com/battery-volt-battery-isolator-20092-p-1186-l-en.html

Any caveats?

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2016 : 07:24:34

What is the wattage of the inverter? The picture of the battery regulator was visible but I didn't see the inverter.
In my guesstimate with 2x105 AH available, you could use 15A for about 6+ hours. That would be ~180W. It could also run a microwave oven at 1500W for about 30 min if you had a powerful enough inverter. Note that this takes ~125A at 12VDC. Not trivial.
Also keep in mind that even when inverters are not delivering 120VAC power but connected, many of them consume an idle current of about ~ 1A and this can run your batteries down over the course of several days' time. It can also produce stray 120VAC currents around the boat. I therefore recommend you install a kill switch on the 12VDC power supply cable between the battery bank and the inverter. Any built-in on/off switch on the inverter may not cut off the idle current completely sonthe inline kill switch can give you peace of mind.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 12/30/2016 07:32:18

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2016 : 09:12:21

I don't see the photo of the inverter either. However, skip the plug in type inverters. My experience with them is that the wiring to the 12v plug will be insufficient for the amperage that the inverter will need. When you try to power something 110v, those units will typically shut down.

I'm using a cheap Harbor Freight 1000w inverter,connected to the battery bank with 300 amp #2 AWG cables. Powers the coffee pot in the morning and allows us to toast bread for breakfast. Haven't used it for anything else, boat has a 12v TV. I could never get the plug-in type units to run the coffee maker.

Davy J

2005 Gemini 105Mc
PO 1987 C25 #5509 SR/SK
Tampa Bay

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5376 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2016 : 18:24:07

Funny thing. I was at my local Sears hardware today and they had a 425W inverter for $24.99, which normally sells for $50. Nice deal. If I calculate the current needed @ 12VDC that's 36A. I don't think it'll run my old Farberware percolator but it will run a 60W LED light and my computer charger. This replaces my 120W unit that struggled with my Mac Book charger.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2016 : 20:34:58

Inverter "pictured" is simply what I picture/envision from the second set of batteries. I had already used the word envision. Switching it up is some kind of writing rule I encountered somewhere as a young'un.

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2016 : 20:45:42

quote:
Originally posted by dmpilc

For the dinghy, 2.5 hp might be better, especially when it comes to lifting it on/off the boat.

Took your advice. Wrestling with 114 pound kicker yesterday wasn't particularly fun. Small is beautiful.

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2016 : 07:48:55

Looking for inverter recommendation now. Won't likely be multitasking much, but... having a 1500 watt air fryer and 1800 watt induction burner running simultaneously WOULD be nice while listening to music. An alcohol stove might be the better bet, EH!?

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2016 : 07:54:00

It takes an 8 HP engine to put two average people on plane in a dink and a 6hp for a single person. Since your not trying to do this then go for the lightest engine. The 2.5 is a good choice.

T

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2016 : 07:56:12

Does this unit seem capable of doing the trick if I throw out the induction burner? Or even running an induction burner solo?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Cobra-CPI-2575-5-000W-12V-DC-To-120V-AC-Power-Inverter/10746778?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=1187&adid=22222222227009298846&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=t&wl3=40838450072&wl4=pla-78651900992&wl5=9012225&wl6=&wl7=9012211&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=112549749&wl11=online&wl12=10746778&wl13=&veh=sem

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2016 : 08:24:06

The outboard will be a breeze to put on and off the dink with a Davis motor caddy. It gives you a handle on top to grasp like a suitcase and the motor can be lifted with one hand. I used one for years. Takes the awkwardness out of the procedure.http://www.westmarine.com/buy/davis-instruments--engine-caddy--214876

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2016 : 13:41:34

Impossible to give an answer to the inverter without knowing if your running this off two batteries or four. Also what you are trying to run and for how long and the amp/wattage of each item.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2016 : 17:35:29

Electric usage will be basic kitchen appliances. Keurig Mini would be nice. I think air fryers are somewhere around 1500w. Right now the plan is to separate batteries 2 and 2. Two will be on each side of the cabin. Outboard will charge starter/house batteries. Solar, 110v shore connection, or gas generator will charge the "kitchen" batteries.

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2017 : 06:57:29

A 5000 watt inverter will power any and all your appliances as long as you don't exceed 5000 watts. How long the battery bank will last is dependent on the time these appliances are in use so that is the unknown variable.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

michael.anda
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2017 : 17:02:59

How long would one be able to use a 1000w pressure cooker with the two Duracell Group 31 AGM batteries noted?

Features:
Marine AGM batteries are specially designed for engine starting and the long deep discharges typical of marine applications. The maintenance-free AGM* design immobilizes the electrolyte making them spillproof and leakproof, so they�re safe to use no matter how much your tiny ship (or luxury yacht) gets tossed. They are available in all popular marine sizes with abundant cranking power for quick, easy starting and all the reserve power necessary to keep your auxiliary equipment running strong.

ONLY AVAILABLE IN AL, CT, DE, FL, GA, IL, IN, KY, MA, MD, ME, MI, MS, NC, NH, NJ, NY, OH, PA, RI, SC, TN, VA, AND WV
Specifications
1 amp hour rate:68.2
100 amp hour rate:110
20 amp hour rate:105
3 amp hour rate:85
5 amp hour rate:86
6 amp hour rate:87.4
8 amp hour rate:90
Battery Electrolyte Composition:Glass Mat
Battery End Type:Top Post
Battery Purpose:Starting Lighting Instrumentation
BCI Group Size:31
CCA at 0 degrees F:800
Freight Class:65
MCA at 32 degrees F:1000
Minutes at 15 amps:348
Minutes at 25 amps:210
Minutes at 5 amps:1265
Minutes at 50 amps:87.4
Minutes at 75 amps:53
Minutes at 8 amps:706
Polarity:Left Positive
Reserve Capacity:200
Terminal Type:STUD/SAE
Volts:12
Manufacturer Info

islander
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2017 : 19:24:29

A good rule to follow is that inverters use 100Ah of power for every 1000 watt hrs of use. Your 1000 watt pressure cooker will take 100 amps out of your 2 battery 210 amp bank in 1 hour. That is close to 50 percent or your 210 amps available. Deep cycle battery's should never be run down past 50 percent or they will be damaged. So to answer the question, You could run your 1000 watt pressure cooker for about 1 hour then the battery's will need to be recharged.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

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