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Replacement Cat 25 Motor Mount

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michaelbrayden
Deckhand

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USA
18 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/01/2017 : 16:24:44

First timer here, getting back to sailing after 30yr layoff.

Late fall we purchased a Cat 25, 1986 tall rig, fin keel. Realized 2 weeks before a launch date (4/27) that the original 2hp SS Garelick mount was inoperable. I have spent the time since furiously researching brackets and positioning. Settled on a Garelick 97094 (?), aluminum with 15.5 travel. For use with a 9.9hp Yamaha, 20" long shaft. Came within a couple of hours of having it mounted myself. But foolishly, opted to commitment to the yard to have her there on time and asked them to install it. Now we're in limbo, can't get the to forecast readiness.

My predicament is positioning. Catalina Tech Sup, say it's up to Yamaha; they say cavitiation should be no more than 1" below the waterline, Garelick says 2". A couple of mechanics say bury the shaft as deep as you can. Posts I read, incline me to think an inch or two temps propulsion issues?

Michael Brayden

islander
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4023 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2017 : 18:05:27

The cavitation plate really doesn't come into play on a sailboat that never gets on plane like a powerboat does. In a powerboat the cavitation plate runs at the water surface when on plane. On a sailboat you want the prop to be as deep as you reasonably can get it. Also remember that the motor is not centered on the boat. Being off to the side the prop will lift out of the water when the boat rocks or goes over waves if the prop is not deep enough. Extra long shaft motors are preferred for these reasons.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9077 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2017 : 19:53:17

On a planing hull, the plate should be about 2-3" below the bottom of the boat and thereby below the surface on plane. 20" is the "transom height" for a "long shaft" motor--the length from the top of the transom to the plate will be about 22-23". But that's very marginal for a motor aft of the transom of a 25' sailboat that pitches for-and-aft through chop and boat wakes. Longest (deepest) is best.

Did the 20" Yamaha come with the boat, or did you buy it separately, or are you planning to buy it? If the latter, I strongly recommend going to the 25" version. My "extra-long" Honda's plate was about 5" below the static waterline, and worked quite well in Long Island Sound chop. I would never want less on that boat.

If you already have the "long" shaft, you can probably position the bracket to put the plate about 3" below the surface, but much lower might create risk of the motor getting pooped by following seas.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

michaelbrayden
Deckhand

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USA
18 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2017 : 20:33:07

You have certainly eased my mind! I regret the mount and motor mfg's installation instructions don't differentiate between power and sailboats. The previous bracket had an 11 1/2 travel and the seller indicates that the configuration worked fine. I can possibly nudge the mount an inch lower and we pick up 4 extra inches with the new travel.

Greatly appreciate this forum's expertise; I should have initiated my research here.

Michael Brayden

DavidBuoy
Admiral

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USA
707 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2017 : 05:05:57

Here are some dimensions I took of the mount I just replaced that I used to validate the location of the new one.

Disclaimer: The advice given on by me is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.

Captain Rob & Admiral Alyson
"David Buoy"-1985 C25 SK/SR #5053

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9077 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2017 : 06:35:40

quote:
Originally posted by DavidBuoy

Here are some dimensions I took of the mount I just replaced that I used to validate the location of the new one...

Cute outboard, Rob!

That's a good example of how to plan the position, but if that's for a Garhauer replacement, I believe the Garelick has a different relationship between the travel and the mounting position on the transom.

Michael, if you use the Search function (above-right) looking for "outboard bracket" or even just "Garelick" in the C-25 forum, I think you'll see several discussions, possibly including making a mounting plate out of Starboard or similar HDPE material to protect the transom and move the bracket a little bit away from the transom, which can help with clearances for lifting and tilting the motor completely out of the water. You want that for sitting in a slip or on a mooring, and for sailing on port tack to keep the motor from dragging on the starboard side (on the '86). You'll also see that a lot of folks here chose the Garhauer stainless bracket that is like the original from Catalina (with some upgrades). (My Fulton bracket was more like the Garelick, and needed to be blocked away from the transom. I did some rougher drawings like that, including with the bracket up and motor tilted.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/02/2017 06:41:06

michaelbrayden
Deckhand

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USA
18 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2017 : 11:35:12

In another life, I'd go with the Garhauer and a 25" shaft. Our 20" Yamaha is essentially, just a year old when we bought it.

I've been struggling/reconciling, Rob's rendering. Yes, our plate is larger, I recall 9X10 approx. The center point of Rob's appears to be 13" below the gunnel. I will use that as a gauge, to get below, if possible.

But, how low can I go? (I planned on attaching 2 images, but can't figure out how?) Anyways, I've seen a couple of mountings that seem precariously close to the water line? Placing the lower portion of the bracket well below the quarter berth shelf. Is there space to work, through the transom access hatch. I had planned to stay a notch above the shelf?

Michael Brayden

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4023 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2017 : 12:52:14

Well if this helps when I was down at my boat today I measured how far my cavitation plate is under the water. I also have a Honda long shaft that came with my boat. In my second to lowest setting it is 3" below the waterline. I know at that setting the prop will pop out of the water when rocking or going over waves. My lowest setting puts the plate 7" below and doesn't pop out. I run my engine in the lowest setting and Yes the head of the motor is low to the water but in 6yrs it has never come close to being swamped.If I had a setting for it I would say 5" might be good compromise.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

michaelbrayden
Deckhand

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USA
18 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2017 : 13:51:33

Thanks Scott! Do you know what the travel distance on your's is? (Don't go back to measure if you don't know.) I'm resigned to mounting the bracket as low as it can practically go.

You did raise another question. I seen conflicting reports about travel distances, depending on the brand. I've assumed that the distance on mine is fixed and I've been told it is either up or down. The handle has about 4 notches, you can't tell because it is fully extended and until mounted on something it can't be lowered. Last I checked it appeared the handle (Garelick 71094),can adjusted to make incremental changes.

I certainly appreciate everyone's contributions; only thing left is implementation. In the NW we're anticipating our 1st stretch of decent weather. Would be nice to get out and enjoy it!

Michael Brayden

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4023 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2017 : 14:42:36

Yes I have the Garhaur that was made for Catalina exclusive. They have 17 1/2" of travel and as you now know it's needed. I realize that and is why I measured the cavitation plate in relation to the waterline and not where the mount is on the transom. A mount with less travel and a long shaft motor will result in the mount having to be lower on the transom. You'll have to find a compromise between the mount being lower and still getting the prop deep enough in the water. Your mount is adjustable with those notches in the handle. Don't believe the ' Only up or down' The bottom of the boot stripe is the water line.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 05/02/2017 14:51:34

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9077 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2017 : 14:53:54

I'm pretty sure the Garelick 71094 has multiple heights. A key difference between it and the Garhauer Rob has illustrated is that the Garhauer lowers to level where the motor plate is lower than the transom mounts. The Garelick, by my recollection, lowers to a position where it is closer to even with the transom mounts and the extension arms are closer to horizontal. I could very well be wrong, but if I'm not, then the vertical position for the Garelick on the transom should be lower than what Rob shows for his Garhauer. In any case, it's probably different--the two brackets have different geometry.

As I read his drawing, the height of the top of the outboard mount is 18" above the waterline when fully lowered. That would put the anticavitation plate of a 21" shaft (measured from the top of the clamp to the anticavitation plate) 3" below the waterline. It looks like he's illustrating it lower than that.

I know it's difficult (and maybe even dangerous) to figure out the position of the lowered bracket when it isn't attached to anything and doesn't have a load on it. Do the mounting instructions for the Garelick indicate the height of the top of the fully lowered motor mounting board relative to the transom mounting plates? With that, you can calculate a mounting position that would put your anticavitation plate at a specific depth, like 4-5" below the waterline. That should take care of you. (The stern squats in the water a little as you get above about 5 knots, pushing the prop deeper.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9077 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2017 : 15:22:34

CORRECTION: (Silly me!) You can easily determine the level of the lowered bracket relative to the transom mounts--it's 15.5" ("vertical travel") lower than when it's in the fully raised position (as shipped). DUH! Now measure your motor from the top of the inside of the mounting clamp to the top of the anticavitation (also called antiventilation) plate. Some simple arithmetic will take you to the vertical position of the mounting plates on the transom relative to the true waterline to get the anticavitation plate to some depth below it. For an "L" shaft motor, I might not recommend deeper than 4".

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/02/2017 15:25:05

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9077 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2017 : 15:34:31

quote:
Originally posted by islander

The bottom of the boot stripe is the water line.

Not on mine. The waterline was visible below the top edge of the bottom paint (until I re-painted each spring). The top of the bottom paint was about 1/2" below the bottom of the boot stripe.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/02/2017 15:39:56

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/02/2017 : 15:57:26

True Dave my bottom paint ends about 1/4 to 1/2" from the bottom of the boot stripe but if you want to get nitpicky about it

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 05/02/2017 15:58:59

michaelbrayden
Deckhand

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USA
18 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2017 : 16:03:43

Rob will have to weigh in on what that line is 3" below the waterline? The cavatation plates appears considerably lower. At least that's what my Yamaha manual illustrates.

Garelick, doesn't indicate the lowered height position and I just searched for pics and found none.

Do others mount, from inside, above the shelf level? I'vs seen some pics that suggest they're much lower. Can that be accessed through the transom hatch?

Michael Brayden

islander
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4023 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2017 : 16:41:48

I believe that all 4 of my bolts are above the shelf. By transom access hatch do you mean that wood board that is in the aft berth, In the center of the transom? If you remove that It gives you access to the lower gudgeon nuts. I doubt you could get your hand inside and over to the mount area. Are you aware of Catalina Direct? It's a parts site dedicated to these boats.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 05/02/2017 17:06:54

michaelbrayden
Deckhand

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18 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2017 : 17:16:10

Yes Scott, that's what I meant. I didn't think I could get back there.

I just received a call from the yard, they have 2 problems:
1) the handle comes too close to the transom. I planned on using starboard, is 3/4" thick enough?
2) He's concerned that mounting the bracket lower on the transom, we'll have trouble reach the control arm? I don't recall reading from others complaints in this regard? But imagined it could be an issue.

I will visit there tomorrow. He says there's another Cat 25, with the same motor. I think I'm adamant the prop has to go lower.

Michael Brayden

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/02/2017 : 17:58:17

There is a woman in my marina having the same issue with a new Yamaha. Her boat is an 89 and the stern rail is built different on them. The Yamaha 9.9 has a very long tiller and has a conflict also.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9077 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2017 : 20:02:25

quote:
Originally posted by islander

True Dave my bottom paint ends about 1/4 to 1/2" from the bottom of the boot stripe but if you want to get nitpicky about it

...and my true waterline was below the top of the bottom paint, to get nitpicky again... I'm suggesting two nits is maybe more like a nat (like maybe a couple of inches).

quote:
I just received a call from the yard, they have 2 problems:
1) the handle comes too close to the transom. I planned on using starboard, is 3/4" thick enough?

That should be easy to figure out when you get to the boat, since you can hold the bracket, in the fully raised position, against the transom. Any problems with the motor's tiller when the bracket is lifted and the motor tilted out of the water might be easily solvable by turning the motor or tilting the handle down a little to go below the stern rail as you tilt the motor.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4023 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2017 : 11:36:29

I need to make a correction. There is room for you to get your hand inside the wood access hatch. It is as deep as the shelf. Sorry for the misinformation but I rarely crawl back there.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 05/05/2017 : 03:58:37

I have a 4 spring Garhauer bracket. My Honda 9.9hp outboard (extra long shaft) when in the vertical raised position, sits with one prop partially in the water. Tilting the outboard out of the water for sailing, there is no interference with my transom rail for the outboard or the bracket. I have a thin piece of starboard (1/4" - 3/8") between the transom and the bracket support plates.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

GaryB
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Response Posted - 05/05/2017 : 17:19:19

Why not just get the Garhauer bracket? My opinion is it's built better and I believe there's more info on them in this form.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

michaelbrayden
Deckhand

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USA
18 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2017 : 19:02:38

Why not Garhauer? I left attention to the motor mount till within the final 2 weeks be launch. I assumed that it only needed a minor adjustment. Instead a replacement was necessary. By the time I finished researching, not here, I had only days left, having rejected 2 and went with Garelick 71094, 15.5" travel. Couldn't get it installed, uncertain about the positioning. Turned the problem over to the boatyard to finalize. It's been there a day over a week and we're still not done. But the end is in sight!

They mounted the bracket as low as they could go. The lowest bolts at the shelf level. Late yesterday they called to say the cavitation plate was not sufficiently below the waterline. Located, the same Yamaha T9.9 25" shaft and it should be installed on Monday.

These images are of the 20" version that we'll have to sell. The demonstrated the mount's function. The quality is excellent and operated the handle effortlessly.

Conclusion, given that they don't recommend above 10hp, it seems one is limited to a 25" shaft. I haven't seen anyone bolt lower than the aft berth shelf you need as much vertical travel as possible, ideally, Garhauer's 17.5.

Michael Brayden

michaelbrayden
Deckhand

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18 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2017 : 19:23:53

I see icons for the pics I attempted posting, but no images. Someone provided instructions to use Flickr, I assumed Dropbox would do, apparently not?

Michael Brayden

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9077 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2017 : 20:26:42

When I right-clicked and tried to open the pix, I got a page from Dropbox saying I needed to log in. Never had that problem with Shutterfly... You could try the Photo Gallery here, which gives clean links for forum posts. (Except you have to join the association.)

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/05/2017 20:43:01

michaelbrayden
Deckhand

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USA
18 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2017 : 20:41:03

I thought I did join; I guess that's the problem? I didn't see anything about processing payment, beyond PayPal or check.

Michael Brayden

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