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The good, the bad and.....

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/24/2003 : 21:58:16

Well friends, my last and initial post got quite the discussion going, evn though I never used the clor....word. It just got away from me I guess.
Anyway, we got her dressed up and sailed her. And not to be accused of a lack of enthusiasm we drove her to Florida to do it. (Home base is Bethlehem, PA) 960 miles one way in 16 hours. Kids slept for 700 of those miles in sleeping bags in rows 2 and 3 of the Suburban.
Middle of the night, empty I95 corridor, cruise control set for 70 mph. Lots of bad coffee....Found a neat ramp, and the Conch House Marina Resort in St. Augustine. Rented a slip for a week, and slowly got organized....Motored and sailed on the inner coastal and finally the Atlantic. Got her home again well broken in. I could write a 50 page play by play, but I'll stick with the highlights.

The good the bad and the ugly......

* <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>Pennsylvania requires annual inspection of the trailer , and brakes on ALL TRAILER WHEELS. I bought the trailer in St Louis, and neither the dealer nor I were aware of this requirement. (Neither was Catalina I found out). A replacement rear axle with brakes is on order. After I install it myself it will be a $800.00 acessory I wasn't counting on, and yes I intentionally broke the freakin' law and under the cover of darkness left PA dragging the rig without the required sticker.

* <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>The 9.9 Honda has very limited turning capability when installed on the 250 WB, especially throttle to port, in addition the propwalk wants to make the boat turn left. Going forward from standing start will, at best, allow you to go straight. Right turns cannot be made untill there is sufficient water flowing over the rudder. Plan waaayyyy ahead.

*<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>The hole through the "dome" for the water ballast valve threaded rod (in the bottom step of the companion way ladder) is on the edge of the dome. Little rubber washers under flat steel washers do not seal around corners. The first morning we woke up with 4 or so inches of water in the bilge under the aft berth, which had migrated into the boat out of the water ballast tank. A frantic trip to assorted purveyors of hardware yielded a thick rubber grommet from an automotive supply, and a kitchen sink valve stem washer from Home depot, which, in concert slowed the leak enough to avoid puddeling.

*<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>The boat lists to starboard. This is maddening, because you notice it constantly. I verified the ballast tank to be full (water in the hose forward), rockabyebabied way back and forth over some good wake from a big fat belch-fire, and spread our stuff out evenly over the boat. Also, the mast is up straight. It takes me and the wife well out on port side (together we are approximeately 300 lbs, she won't give me the exact #) to get the whole thing level. If anyone has had seen or heard of this please let me know.

I'm not going to mention the leaking front window and other assorted little QC items. The manual describes reefing, sort of. I still haven't figured out how to efficiently rig both reefs.....

On the good news front:

*<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>The trailer is awesome. It takes me under three hours from arriving on the scene to sail away, and vice versa. No help. I made a wooden mast support for in the mast step to cut down on the swaying, and strap the whole kit 'n kaboodle down with six ratchet straps. Fast and firm. Also, during gas stops you can tighten it all up a little if necesary from street level. I will reduce setup/breakdown time even more after I buy some more speedy hardware for hanking on the Jib, and the main sheet/boom vang.

*<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>The Honda is awesome. Runs smooth, nice power, quiet, lots of electricity.

*<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>The boat sails great. The "tenderness" some of you reported make me think of my two man racing days in Holland. (About three decades ago....) Vauriens and other assorted boats. Very sensitive, very responsive. Just make sure you can reach the main sheet when it gets gusty, and vent the main as soon as you feel it coming. I still have the reflex, comes in handy now.

*<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>Living below for a week with mom dad and a 5 and 10 year old worked out well. We are used to rented 35-40 footers. The adjustment is not easy. Next time we'll bring about half the shhhtuff. Nevertheless, the head (with an immediate replacement of the one load portapotty with the big one from West Marine) and the galley are very workable. Im impressed with the amount of livable space Mr. Butler provided for. I'll have to make a potload of racks shelves and hangers etc. and then we'll be all set. By the way, propane botlles are shipped with compressed AIR in them.....that stuff just won't light up worth a damn, no matter how long you try....<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>. After I finally read the instructions (duh...) I had the bottle purged and filled with gas. Much better, although it still tooke me awhile to figure out that opening or closing the galley cabinet door will put out the flame......I can fix that......

So there is the initial report. Dave Grass at Catalina has received essentially the same information. I expect the best from Catalina. You will be the first to know If I'm not satisfied with their response.

I've added pictures of the two main gripes here:

http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/familypictures.html

Oscar.
Lady Kay, back in the driveway, ready to go anytime.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2003 : 00:33:06

Great report of a nice shakedown cruise.

I am able to get 35 degrees starboard turn by shifting the motor as far to starboard as it will go and grinding off a corner of the motor's tiller arm.

If the soft link is used... it doesn't care about a limited starboard turn as the bungee loads the turn in that direction so the rudder is not deterred from a full turn.

The valve shaft leak has been reported... I think the fix is to build up a fiberglass boss and grind the top flat... likely Catalina will take care of that under warranty... add it on the list with the forward window. Have them also inspect the ballast valve. If it doesn't seal properly then it contributes to the problem you had. There has been reports of the valve surface being slathered with something which prevented it from closing properly. The good news is that once this is fixed... the bilge is very dry.

A listing problem has not been reported to the forum. Interested in what you discover.

I am not a fan of the reefing setup. Only one line is provided so I'm assuming that Catalina expects a choice, settup for either the first or second. The single line reef doesn't work well. I believe its easier and quicker to use a double line system. Have a reefing drawing on my web site showing a possible plan for both reef points.

Sounds like Y'all had a good time. Your story continues to indicate that the C250 water ballast makes a good trailer cruiser.

<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/myreefing.jpg" border=0>

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - arlyn stewart on 03/25/2003 00:35:46

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2003 : 00:46:58

Wonderful! Very happy to hear you made it back safely also. And knowing that I am happy you stayed off all the sand bars in the inlet. Across the ICW from the Conch House and north of the Valano Bridge is a restaurant called Cap's. Boaters anchor out and listen to the bands playing on the deck.

Hope you got to see a little of the Ancient City. St. George St. is pretty cool.

Safe voyages,
Ben, FL s/v Chick-a-pea C250wk
<img src="http://www.members.aol.com:/benraye/pictures/fullsail.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2003 : 02:48:20

Sounds like the shake down cruise had it ups and downs and it sounds like you had a good time.

Our family is similar to yours, we have Dad, Mom, a 13 & a 7 year old we have plenty of room for 4. (As long as I can limit the amount of toys that make the trip)

I don't have the water ballast so I can't comment on those problems but like Arlyn said I have not heard of the listing problem.

I'm sure Catalina & your dealer will take care of the problems. My dealer handled the few problems we had.

Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc23b3127cce9462f2858f2b0000001010" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2003 : 03:15:41

Oscar, examine the two bronze blocks for the center board shaft. They both should be flush with the bottom of the hull. If one side wasn't tightened or has come loose and is lower than the other side, the center board would cant significantly in six feet and though its not particularly heavy, it weighs about 90 lbs with most of that as lead filler within the bottom of the board. It could be your listing problem.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2003 : 07:45:58

Thanks for all your replies.

The list occurs with the centerboard up or down......

The dealer I bought the boat from is 900 miles from my home...

Yes, we did have a great time....

Oscar.

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2003 : 10:21:49

Surely there is a dealer closer to your home. It's like the warranty on a car you don't have to take it back to the place you bought it. Just a dealer that sells that make & model. The dealer doesn't eat the cost of the warranty repairs the manufacture does. They pay the dealer for the time and materials to fix the warranty.

If that doesn't work call Catalina they have a crew that drives the country in an RV to fix problems.

Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc23b3127cce9462f2858f2b0000001010" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2003 : 11:16:56

Firends,

Latest is that my file is on the desk of the man himself. (Frank Butler) I am eagerly awaiting his call....

Oscar
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway, just back from Florida ready to go anytime.

Edited by - on

Tray
Navigator

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Namibia
224 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2003 : 22:57:04

Oscar,

Congratulations! Hopefully you'll get more opportunities to sail this summer. As for the good, bad and ugly...

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The 9.9 Honda has very limited turning capability<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Arlyn's softlink cured this problem for me. I can get in and out of any slip with ease.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The hole through the "dome" for the water ballast valve threaded rod<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I can't believe Catalina hasn't fixed this, yet. My dealer offered to fix mine for me, but it was easier to just build up a seating surface with 3M 5200 for the washers to mate to. I've had dry bilges ever since. Someone posted a funny story about that particular problem a while ago. I think it was Mark M., anyway, he said the boat seemed to get slower and slower as the day's sail progressed. At day's end, he found his aft bilge full of water.<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The boat lists to starboard.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

So does mine...I thought I posted regarding this oddity before, but I believe it to be caused by the Honda 4 stroke. When I take it off for service, the list goes away.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Living below for a week with mom dad and a 5 and 10 year old worked out well <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Maybe you could post some procedures you used to make this happen? My wife and I can be comfortable for overnights, but that's about it. I must be packing poorly. I need to work on organization.

BTW...Do the newer WBs have the lines led aft? I had to make that upgrade myself. It was well worth it, although the clutches I used need upsizing. The main halyard tends to slip a little.

Again, congrats. Let some of us Florida sailors know next time you plan a trip here. Maybe we'll meet up.

<img src="http://members.sailnet.com/profile/uploads/weenybean/crazy.gif" border=0>
Tray
C-250WB #554
"Weeny Bean"

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2003 : 11:32:38

I haven't ssen the "soft-link" you all are referring to, but I suspect It"s a bungee based rig to make the motor follow the rudder.
This still wouldn't help. I have been releasing the turn friction lock and moving the motor by hand when manoevering. The problem is that it won't turn far enpough. The suggestion to chew of part of the throttle "rest" has merit. It would increase the turn by five or so degrees, and everything would help. Actually, the most elegant solution would be to cut a hole in the fuel tank box and install a fiberglass half spere with a flange (an "innie", with about a 4 inch diameter) if anyone has seen a piece that could serve this purpouse let me know.
As far as the list, allegedly the boat is designed to compensate for the weight of the engine, in other words, if you take the engine off, the boat should list to port.
After thinking about this problem for a while, It could actually work to my advantage. I plan on adding some stuff....head, refridgeration, AC, battery charger. The only place to put this is on the port side, in the space behind the head. When all is said and done I could end up level.
As far as living below, the secret is to pack what you need, and then leave half of it home. Kids can bring what they want but t has to fit in the aft berth, leaving enough room for them. Anything I find floating around the cabin belonging to them goes there.....
Then mom and dad are in the Master suite/dining room living room nav station combo. Secret here is to have things in duffelbags that close, and as few of them as possible. This way when you "transform" from one configuration to the other you have minimal items to move around. Loose stuff is the killer. Thus my intent to add shelving in the forward V, and racks on the head walls and the iside of the back of the cabin trunk.
Finally, the table is cool, in an empty boat. Stowing and retrieving it in a boat full of people bedding and stuff is a royal rectal discomfort. As we like having it for dinner, navigating/planning, but also like it gone so we can get out of bed in the middle of the night, I think there is a major modification in the future. Something with drop leaves/fiddles and while I'm at it I might as well make it out of some nice wood......

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway, just back from Florida ready to go anytime.

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2003 : 12:55:01

Oscar,
Seeing as how you are in Bethlehem you may want to meet up with a bunch of us this summer who sail the Rehoboth Bay. The Rehoboth Bay Marina is at the end of Collins street in Dewey Beach and is extreemly reasonably priced. To find details about the boat and the crowd, you could go to the King George Inn near Dorney Park and ask for Cap'n Barnacle Bill or his wife Cindy at the bar. They are usually there for Friday night happy hour. He sails a water ballasted Hunter but don't hold that against him. He is also a drummer, I play alto sax so from looking at your website there may be some music connection. It looks like it wont be long until I have my 250WB but if it falls through I will be sailing a 25' Cat rigged ketch, the only thing with two masts on the bay...

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2003 : 14:17:43

I'll have too look up the cap'n. Looking at the map, we'll definitely check it out, and maybe add it to our repetoire. Looks like there would be a private beach or two to anchor off and let the kiddies dig dig dig.......

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2003 : 16:51:13

Absolutley plenty o' small beach areas! There is one called Sallys or Saltys cove, whose name is a subject of great debate. Somewhere there was a typo on a chart and so it seems to have two names. There is also a huge sandbar popular with folks who like to clam. It rises pretty quickly to a 3 or 400 yard expanse of ankle deep water. If you look at a chart it is near the "ditch" that connects the Rehoboth Bay and the Indian River Bay. Any day around sunset you can drop the hook just off of the Rusty Rudder, fire up the grill and listen to the steel drum band wafting out to your boat. But by far my favorite day sail is to go through the ditch to the Indian River Bay, out the Indian River Inlet into the ocean, up the beach past all the bathers to Cape Henelopen,into Lewes, Delaware, and then back through the canal to get home. During the ocean part of the trip you are ALWAYS visited by a pod of dolphins, and through the canal you can see erns, heron, and bald eagles. From Wilmington where I live it is a one hour and 40 minute drive. Rehoboth has a cute boardwalk for the kids and great restaurants. Its family oriented until around 10. Dewey Beach itself is a kind of wild college party town at night. The Marina and bay are on the western side of a two block wide isthmus so if you want to swim in the ocean you are right there. My girlfriend and I sail all day and either stay on the bay or go into town for dinner by trolly so you can forget your car. Boy am I ready for summer!

Edited by - on

mcl2
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2003 : 22:15:03

WOW!!! I didn't know that there were so many People from the Bethlehem Area!!!!! I'm in Bethlehem for school now (Lehigh) and sail on Lake Wallenpaupack. My family currently owns a C-22, but as soon as i get out of here (school) I’m plan on buying a C250 as a graduation present for my self!!!! I've been saving already!!!! I frequent this site to learn and drool over all of your boats!!!! Oscar, I assume that you live on the North Side, I’d love to get together some time and talk boats; it’s actually my favorite hobby!!! That's if you wouldn't mind a young collage kid as company.

Willy, I know where the King George Inn is, I have heard they have great food. I’ll have to go to Happy hour sometime, Have you ever heard of a Lehigh Kidd turn down happy hour?!?!?!?!?! Hahaha, Small world. Where is Rehoboth Bay?

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2003 : 12:13:49

The Rehoboth Bay is in Delaware, on it's small stretch of Atlantic coast, north of Ocean City, Maryland.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2003 : 13:50:39

Oscar... your sentimentality for the table has been shared several times on the forum with each choosing a solution that works for them but all downsizing some amount.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2003 : 14:20:04

mcl2...

Actually, I'm on the south side, just the other side of the hill behind you.
I'd love to chat boats with you.....Ever hang at Godfrey Daniels?.....

oscar@noln.com

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

Edited by - on

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