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Bruce Ebling
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/26/2003 : 21:35:32

I have been running an ad for my 1983 C25 for sale and have had several strange replies from Africa and London saying they want to buy the boat for cash (cashiers check) and will ship it home. I know it is a scam, but I can't see the angle. Has anyone else run into these same type of supposed buyer?
Bruce ebling
C25
Selah

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2003 : 22:12:02

What's scarry is if they're continuing to do it because they've been successful.

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 03/26/2003 : 22:19:22

I dont see a problem here. You deposit the check and make sure it clears before the boat goes OR you create an escrow account where they deposit funds prior to release of interest and shipment. I just bought a boat in Canada last November. No big deal.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2003 : 05:18:36

Bruce,

Gotta agree with Doug with the information yoiu gave us. The "sale" takes place in Eugene, you receive their cashier's check and sign the title over to the purchaser in Eugene, and the boat sitting whereever it is is theirs, They then need to hire some one to get it ready for shipment. Could be you, could be me (not very likely, but you see the picture.)

Now it becoems a scam when you reply to them and they come back asking for cash from you, kinda like the old lady "You're a winner scam. Then with all you e-mail correspondence in hand, you turn the information over to the authorities, and wait for a real offer.

Sounds like it works for me.

Good luck.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2003 : 09:57:17

I can't see the 'angle' either. It would be a rather odd scam if it is one... somebody looking through used boat advertisments.

They are not asking you to send money or sign title in advance of payment are they?

In other countries, boats like ours may be very expensive and hard to come by. This may be the case here.

OTOH, shipping a C25 to England or South Africa has to cost a few boat units... I wonder what it would cost to get a C25 to England... WAG... $3K to $5K? (Assuming are you on the East Coast.)

Interesting. Keep us posted if the prospective buyers come up with more 'details'.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2003 : 11:26:09

Here is an angle.

The tell you they want to pay you through PayPal or another service like it.

Then they ask for your user I.D. and Password. If you give them a password they will have access to your account.

I get scam e-mails trying to get passwords. I delete them ASAP.

Just a thought.

Paul

Edited by - on

jandrus
1st Mate

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USA
79 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2003 : 11:52:54

Its a wicked scam. Happens somewhat regularly. They're going to ask to buy your boat via certified check. The check will be in an amount greater than the amount of the boat from an off-shore bank. You deposit the check and the bank clears the funds in stages as they wait for a response from the off-shore bank. You will be instructed to withdraw the excess of the amount of the check above the price of the boat and send it to the buyer. The buyer will then disapear. The check will bounce because its forged. Your bank will look to you for the money you withdrew during the clearance process.

c25 #1942 s/v tako kichi

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2003 : 12:57:25

What would happen if you refused to withdraw the excess amount? After all, you told them the price and they chose to overpay. Then when the check bounced, no damage done.

Not that I'm suggesting you go through with the hassle; just pondering.

I get these Nigerian "My father was X in the former regime and has millions tied up in banks I need to export" scams every day. Would love to find a way to slam them, but I guess the FBI would also.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2003 : 13:15:15

Haven't you ever heard of using an escrow account. Thats what escrow is all about. They make it all nice and legal. They get the funds and assure they have the funds and they distibute the funds when the transaction is legal and done. It doesnt cost that much more to set one up. You tell the purchaser what escrow fund/company to deposit the money into.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2003 : 15:56:59

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Haven't you ever heard of using an escrow account. Thats what escrow is all about. They make it all nice and legal. They get the funds and assure they have the funds and they distibute the funds when the transaction is legal and done. It doesnt cost that much more to set one up. You tell the purchaser what escrow fund/company to deposit the money into.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

There are numerous scam escrow services out there, maybe that is the angle

http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y02/m10/i25/s01
http://www.msnbc.com/news/846795.asp
http://www.msnbc.com/news/775457.asp

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2003 : 16:44:15

While I suspect Bruce's deal is a scam, perhaps its legit, and what needs to happen is Bruce's protection against the scam. Establishing an escrow account, as Doug has suggested certainly provides one very good way of making sure everything is as advertized. I'd expect that once a scammer heard that he was to deposit his money in the escrow account and that the "closing" would occur only when the funds cleared, he'd (a scammer) would lose interest very quickly. If his certified check was for an amount greater than the agreed upon purchase price, the escrow company would refund the extra only when the certified check had cleared. A bogus check, no deal, no refund.

Am I missing something?

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Jack Kirkpatrick
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
5 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2003 : 21:52:43

The scams suggested do not have to come from a foreigh country. My daughter works for a title company. A cashers check from a Florida bank was provided to the title company for the purchase of a house at the closing. The check was also for more than the amount of the house. The house was closed, the excess funds of the cashers check was returned to the house buyer...............

The check was altered, a $5000.00 cashers check was altered to be a $500,000.00 check. It took months to get the guy out of the house (it was his house) and months to get him put in jail. The title company almost went belly-up..

The realtor who set the deal up collected his commission. And the previous home owner did not want the house back. The title company was the proud owner of a house he did not want..

Cashers checks are NOT guarenteed by the bank

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2003 : 22:00:05

Strange to think some are from London. Years ago I remember reading a review of the Jaguar 27, which is the Catalina 27 in England, it was a fairly popular boat there. I don't know if there was a Jaguar 25, but think so. It could not be reasonable that it is cheaper to ship from US to UK if the same item is available in UK already. Curious! Ron srsk #2343 Orion SW FL

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2003 : 08:12:46

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Strange to think some are from London. Years ago I remember reading a review of the Jaguar 27, which is the Catalina 27 in England, it was a fairly popular boat there. I don't know if there was a Jaguar 25, but think so. It could not be reasonable that it is cheaper to ship from US to UK if the same item is available in UK already. Curious! Ron srsk #2343 Orion SW FL

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Ron there is a Jaguar 25, Some of the owners are listed under the C-25 section of our owners list.
http://www.catalina25-250.org/email25.html

Take a look at hulls 296 and 301

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2003 : 08:23:08

If Bruce chose to persue either London or South African interest, he selects the escrow service, and establishes with his bank or lawyer the terms for release of the money - to him and the transfer of title to the Londoner or South African who is buying the boat.

Controlling the choice of escrow service is very different than going to a seller when you are the buyer, and indiscriminately wiring funds to the account. That way you could be dealing with an internet escrow fraud account. Out the money, out the product you bought. This would be a risk if some one is buying a boat from abroad, or even a different part of the country.

With reasonable controls, if I were in Bruce's position, I respond to their e-mail inquiry and see what happens. He could sell the boat, after all, without a hitch.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2003 : 08:51:44

Here is a response I got this morning on the Marinette. It's on ebay now.

This guy is offering me a Porsche 911 Targa Strosek and a Harley Chopper.

Maybe they're hot. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

PW

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2003 : 10:30:42

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
This guy is offering me a Porsche 911 Targa Strosek and a Harley Chopper.

Maybe they're hot. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
...or maybe he's gonna keep a set of keys for each. <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2003 : 12:33:04

I think the tipoff that this is a scam is that these people are CONSIDERING buying a boat for under $10,000 and then PAYING to have it shipped halfway around the world. Maybe I could see someone doing this for a $150,000 Hinckley, but not a 20 year old C25 where the shipping costs would be a substantial percentage of the purchase price.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc32b3127cce92e981259d130000001010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2003 : 13:28:38

Don,
I don't know if that would be the tip off. When I first started looking at sailboats, I decided I wanted a Trailer-Tri 720. The only ones that were available happened to be in Australia at the time. I looked into having one shipped over. I think it was around $4000 for a container from Australia to Washington. So there can be some legitimate inquiries. Stupid, maybe, but legitimate.<img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - John Mason on 03/28/2003 13:34:49

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2003 : 15:03:30

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I think the tipoff that this is a scam is that these people are CONSIDERING buying a boat for under $10,000 and then PAYING to have it shipped halfway around the world. Maybe I could see someone doing this for a $150,000 Hinckley, but not a 20 year old C25 where the shipping costs would be a substantial percentage of the purchase price.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

EXACTLY

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2003 : 18:38:50

"buying a boat for under $10,000 and then PAYING to have it shipped halfway around the world"

Unless that $8K Catalina is worth $25K in England. ;>)

I'd might nose around the net this weekend and see what a C25 would sell for overseas... it might (or might not) surprising.

Sailing is pretty popular elsewhere in the world.

-- CB

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2003 : 19:14:29

After a quick search on Yachtworld, I found six early to mid 1980's Jaguar 25's that were selling from $14,500 to $15,500(US dollars).

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc32b3127cce92e981259d130000001010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

jheard
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
49 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2003 : 20:21:12

Create a new bank account with minimum (say $100). Give that account number to the buyer and have the buyer wire the money to that account. Thus, no check to bounce. As part of the agreement, wait 30 days, then ship the boat.

Edited by - on

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