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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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balanced rudder installation help

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Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/05/2003 : 14:43:05

It's Saturday 2:30pm and Chick-a-pea is on her trailer. And it was problematic.

Now I need to get my new rudder installed. I did a search for the old threads but website not responding.

It looks like I am going to have to cut away the rudder where the double back-set is and reglass and geal coat it like others have done.

Without doing that the pintles will not be close enough to the gungens.

Needless to say I am nervous about cutting my new rudder. But this week is all I have left before heading south.

Anyone who has done this please respond with any advice in case I am missing something.

Got to go install spreader lights now. Just finished with the curtains.

Safe voyages,
Ben, FL s/v Chick-a-pea C250wk
<img src="http://www.members.aol.com:/benraye/pictures/fullsail.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - ben - fl on 04/06/2003 07:16:04

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2003 : 15:31:05

Ben,

I'm not familiar with the previous proceedings on this subject, but for what it's worth, the only way I can get the 3rd gen rudder that my 2002 came with on is with the tiller full to port (and rudder thus full to starboard........

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

Edited by - on

Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2003 : 07:13:45

I took some pictures yesterday. As you can see the pintles on the two rudders line up ok when the new pintles are in their slots. But when my brother holds the rudder up the square appendage in the set back hits the hull. For me to mount it so it does not hit the hull I would have to move the pintles out further leaving less fiberglass to hold the bolts. What is that square appendage in there for?. I am just going to do an appendectomy and leave one return going forward.

<img src="http://www.members.aol.com:/benraye/pictures/rudder1.jpg" border=0>

<img src="http://www.members.aol.com:/benraye/pictures/rudder2.jpg" border=0>

<img src="http://www.members.aol.com:/benraye/pictures/rudder3.jpg" border=0>

Safe voyages,
Ben, FL s/v Chick-a-pea C250wk
<img src="http://www.members.aol.com:/benraye/pictures/fullsail.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2003 : 08:39:35

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I am just going to do an appendectomy and leave one return going forward.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

The way you are holding the rudder in your picture is how it is suppose to sit only the lower "step" going under the hull. I was told by my dealer that if the step drags the bottom of the hull to lightly sand the rudder step down a 1/8". I didn't have that problem. Mine fit fine the way it came from the factory and the pintles were installed when I received my 3rd gen rudder.

The pintles on the 3rd gen rudder do stick out further than they did on the 2nd. (My 2nd was not the beaching rudder). The top step is about a 1/4" away from the stern.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> It looks like I am going to have to cut away the rudder where the double back-set is and reglass and geal coat it like others have done.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I would say this would be the last resort. Your pictures show you pintles are not fastened to the rudder yet. I would just slide them out enough so the top step on the rudder is a 1/4" away from the stern then set your bolts.

Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc23b3127cce9462f2858f2b0000001010" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2003 : 09:40:34

Ben,

Not sure my comments will be helpful... My rudder came with all hardwared installed but to mount the rudder, I had to cut the lower (extra long pintle) to the same length as the upper.

I used an abrasive cut off wheel to do this as a hack saw is ineffectual on the hardened pintle.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

kirkh
Deckhand

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USA
17 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2003 : 19:39:05

Ben,

See my "Key Learnings" post from a few weeks ago. It might help you out or at least make you feel better after you see my screw-ups.

I did this on a 2000 250wk and the pintles were positioned with 1/2 inch clearance from the rudder. I did have to move the upper pintle above the indentation manufactured in the rudder. Keep at it, the boat now handles great.

http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2898

Kirk
C250WK #490

Edited by - on

bill bosworth
Navigator

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USA
172 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2003 : 10:23:19

Arlyn;
I got my new rudder yesterday, it didn't have the hardware installed. I wondering, if you cut off the long pintail, how will you lock the rudder to the boat, is there a chance that it will float off, or will he step under the hull prevent this? The spaces for the pintails on the rudder have been greatly inlarged over what I have seen on this site. The spaces are at least 4 inches wide and very in length, upper port side is the shortest, upper starboard the longest. I'm thinking that I will mount the pintails high enough that the lower step is an inch or so below the hull to allow the rudder to be easily removed. Can you think of any reason not to mount the rudder this low?
I also see that I'll have to modify the tiller as the new blade is about 1/4" or so narrower than the old one. I think I'll put some plastic washers on either side of the rudder where the tiller attaches to cut down of wear.
I'd like to put the boat in the water and try everything out, but can you believe that we have to much water in our lake, it's still about 10 feet above normal, it looks like my dock is out in the middle of the lake.
Bill c250wb Serendipity

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2003 : 13:39:46

Bill, Catalina may mount the hardware on the wheel steering versions because of possible difficulties in getting the pintles and control arm located correctly. My upper pintle protrudes low enough and it had a hole in it for pinning. I cut the lower one to match...and could in fact drill a hole to double pin...but I doubt I will do that.

The lower pintle was extra long and someone explained that was to allow the lower one to be felt into position as the rudder was stepped from on the boat. Then as it seats...the upper one is positioned making the process easier as only one pintle has to be jockeyd at a time... that explanation made sense...and I bought it.

Yes, I see no reason other than posible tiller height concern ...that the rudder couldn't be lowered an inch or so to save the problem of cutting off the pintle as long as the recessed boss offers space for the pintles.

Did your tiller arm get some plastic shims to work with the 2nd generation rudder? If so, remove them.

btw...unfortunatly... we had to cancel the Bahamas cruise... you may have seem my otherwise posting

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - arlyn stewart on 04/08/2003 13:41:54

Edited by - on

bill bosworth
Navigator

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USA
172 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2003 : 21:04:41

Arlyn;
Well, I mounted the rudder, drilling holes in new fiberglass is so much fun. I decided to work from the top down. I compaired the new rudder to the 2nd gen one. I found that the hole for the tiller was 9" from the top pintail, and that the pintails were 12" apart. I was able to mount the new ones in the same location. Doing this put the lower step in the blade about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches below the bottom of the hull making it easy to remove the rudder. The tiller should come out the same as on the old one.
Sorry to hear that you had to cancel your trip. I know you were looking forward to it.
Bill c250wb Serendipity

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