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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Keeping Small Children Aboard

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Kip C
Navigator

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USA
243 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/17/2003 : 16:42:32

Hi Everyone,

A few months ago I posted that we were looking for a cat, well... we finally have it. A beautifully maintained 1990 standand rig, wing keel, inboard diesel with a 10,000lb. trailer.

My question is how has everyone handled little ones - lifeline netting? tether? or both? We have a 5 and a 3 year old. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Also, if anyone has good netting or a harness and tether their kids have out grown, let me know.

Thanks ,

Kip

Edited by - Kip C on 04/17/2003 16:56:54

Edited by - Kip C on 04/17/2003 19:19:39

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2003 : 20:00:40

Kip....ours are 5 and 10 now, we've been off and on the water for years....The oldest one is gaining enough stability to get some dispensation from the rules, but basically they are as follows:

Rule # 1.....Life vest on, when we get out of the car if you can see the water......only time they come off is when we're down below.
Rule # 2.....Harness on when underway if you have any doubt whether you can spare one hand for the kids....(you need the other for the ship, that leaves none for you....)
Rule # 3......Ask permission before leaving the cockpit to go on deck, even in the harbor. It does two things: First you're aware that they're going up there, two, if it's not a good idea at the time you can say no.
Rule # 4....see rule # 1.

We were chartering up untill this year, so we never did the netting thing. It does make sense, but as a redundancy, not as an excuse to relax the rules.

It's a little unnerving in the beginning, but you get used to it. Our kids love the water, and can frequently be seen taking a nap while underway from say....11am to 3 pm.......ah, peace and quiet.

BTW, are you intending on sailing this thing off the trailer regularly? What are you pulling it with?

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot2.JPG" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

Edited by - Oscar on 04/17/2003 20:05:27

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2003 : 01:39:47

Don' t know if you mean primarily cruising for a week or so, weekending or daysailing.....or where.....We took our 2 girls on weeklong trips from the time they were infants. Because we were in the San Juans where there is bigger water, the chance for ROUGH was a possibility. We always took another adult with us so there was one big person for each kid, while I could handle the boat by myself if I had to. We did not use tethers much at all, but lived by the lifejacket rule unless below. I noticed that when they were little the "sailing" was limited to 3-4 hours, usually, to get to new destinations. We spent much more time ashore, exploring, etc. The boat can get pretty small. Swimming lessons are a must or you'll never relax.

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

cclark
Navigator

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USA
104 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2003 : 02:21:34

I have the same concerns. Searching the archives of the last year, I found this thread to be helpful.
Chris

http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1064

"Ora Serrata" '83 SK/TR

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2003 : 03:01:26

My wife has always been more nervious about the boat, she is a horse person not boat person. The kids were on the boat very minimually when infants. I kind of felt bad for the kids anyway, all they could do was be a rolly ball in the cockpit or cabin with those life jackets on. They are now 3 and 6. as you can see we have netting, lifejackets and harnesses. Mostly we do small lake sailing. To tell the truth I am glad she has insisted on these precautions. The neting was from west marine, not too expensive. The problem with it is there is no place to tie down the bottom. After installing it nad having the bottom flutter around the first year I got some stout 1/4" line and tied it along the bottom, weaving it through the netting. Keeps it nice and taunt.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2003 : 03:15:31

Oops. here is the photo
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942764c48eb30000001610" border=0>

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

Kip C
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
243 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2003 : 08:33:36

Hi All,

Thanks for the responses. We will be keeping the boat at Brookville lake in Indiana initially. As the kids get older and our skills increase we may end up on Lake Erie near Sandusky, Oh.,
plus some occational trailering to cool locations.

Oscar, we have a Chevy 1500 4X4, with the 5300 V8 and a wheelbase of 157", to tow with. I have only towed the boat the 40-50 miles it was from our house, but it trailed just fine. Every thing seemed well balanced .

Chris , your link helps alot.

Matt, I had planned to something similar with the bottom of the lifeline netting . Did you tie off the line at the bottom of the bow and stern pulpits

Thanks again,

Kip

'90 C25 #6021
WK/SR

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2003 : 09:28:57

Kip,

I too sailed with two boys(this time)five years apart in age. Never used netting but considered it. A friend made up a carseat to a hatchboard insert and whenever things got iffy the little one was strapped in freeing hands for other things.

Oscar's rules regarding jackets was number one with both of my boys.

Early on in their lives boredom was controlled by filling a pail of water and having little plastic sailboats therein. Later on it was necessary to plug the scuppers and fill the cockpit somewhat with water. When they tried diving off the seats into four inches of water it was necessary to think up some rules to preserve life. My favorite passtime afloat was to plug a mouth with a bottle and make up sea chanties while the tethered tyke was held on my lap. The boys have grown older now but the memory lingers on. They're both in school now and that frees me to sail daily til dismissal time, retired ya know.

Val on Calista # 3936

Val Bisagni]<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df11b3127cce94709c5ff2e90000000010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2003 : 14:19:14

>Oscar, we have a Chevy 1500 4X4, with the 5300 V8 and a wheelbase of 157", to tow with. I have only towed the boat the 40-50 miles it was from our house, but it trailed just fine. Every thing seemed well balanced .<

Dependng on the year and the rear end you might be pushing, or exceeding the manufacturers recommendations/limitations, which are stated only as maximums. When called and asked what the empty vehicle weighs GM doesn't know. They basically tell you to go to the scales (many truck stops have them).
The main reason I bought a 250WB, with the limited headroom (ouch...%$&^%^#) is because without the 1200 lbs ballast, with our gear and the weight of the trailer, and the occupants in the pulling vehicle (2002 1/2 ton Suburban 4wd) we are steering well clear of limitations.
If, through no fault of mine, it rolls over and crushes a family of 8, on social security, in a 1974 Yugo, the first thing the pro bono lawyer is going to do is sweep up the wreck and put it on a scale..........call me a whimp in my old age, I've got too much to loose.
Just food for thought....

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2003 : 15:33:16

Kip,

I've been sailing since my kids were infants and it's been great. As far as safety equipment, I've only used lifejackets, but tethers and netting can only help.

SailNet has a few articles on this topic that might be helpful. Just go there and to a search on "children" or click on this link,

http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?article_criteria=children

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2003 : 17:20:18

In addition to the safety discussion, try fishing. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3da39b3127cce962983f25a700000001610" border=0>

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2003 : 20:40:15

We have cruised extensively with kids on board, and now own a Catalina 25. Although our kids are older now (13 and 11) we have been going out for many years. We also have 2 little dogs.

We also have the lifejacket rule - when out of the salon, the life jackets are on, for all of us. We don't enforce this at dock or anchor. It is easier for the kids to follow a rule IF YOU DO SO TOO. The Admiral and I have belt type manual inflatable PFDs that we always wear. The kids have the suspender types, manual, I don't want them coming on from just spray. We are all excellent swimmers. Even the mini Dachsund and the Jack Russel are great in the water (too great).

When the kids were smaller they wore vest types. All PFDs have a whistle and we use a lightstick for nights. Young kids should have the kind that buckle between the legs.

Can't get the dogs to keep one on, so we always have a big fishing net handy.

Another tip - have everyone know the Crew Overboard rules, procedure and sequence of events (ie. Start yelling and the person who observes the COB never takes their eye off the one in the water; start throwing floating things in - COB pole, throwable PFD, cushions, whatever; hit the GPS MOB button, turn boat into wind, VHF Mayday). If we lost a really young one overboard, my wife would probably go in, but this is not recommended by the Coast Guard. Because then I have to rescue two people. It's up to you.

Tip - I think it is most likely that YOU will be the one in the water. Make sure your wife and other crew know what to do and can handle the boat. If you have roller furling it's much less likely to have a COB situation.

Final Tip - in case of dire emergency, collision, sinking, abandon ship, etc. it is agreed beforehand that I would take the oldest kid and my wife would take the younger. Talk out emergency situations. Use the time leaving the harbor, drifting waiting for wind, or driving to the boat to discuss scenarios and what to do in them. Involve the whole family in these talks. Make sure everyone knows what to do.

Then actually practice a COB situation - rescue a cushion that you don't mind losing - it's very hard to do at sea.

Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2003 : 02:22:45

I tied of at the rear stanchion, before the cockpit. At the bow I tied in a loop and ran the free end though the base of the pulpit stanchion and kind of used teh loop as a pully to tighten the whole mess. Works OK for me.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

n/a
deleted

Members Avatar

163 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 12:33:11

Ted's been sailing since 8 mos old. PFD, tether, lifeline netting. We also had him wear his little bike helmet underway when he was learning to walk. They are so unsteady anyway at that age and we didn't want him pitching onto his head in a seaway.

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2003 : 21:09:11

I have been sailing with my girls since each was about 5. since I sail without another adult I have been very careful about safety, life jackets etc. mostly when they were little we would go overnight to a nearby cove but as they have gotten older our cruises have been longer. When they were 6 and 11 I taught them how to fire a flare and use the radio. I taught them to release all sheets and head up into the wind in a man overboard drill. I always wear a harness. My advice about kids on board is to make them a part of the crew as soon as possible. Nothing is more impressive than coming into an anchorage with your 11 year old at the helm calling out depth readings as her dad mans the anchor and she puts the engine in reverse to set the hook. two years ago my youngest then 7 took care of all the radio calls to the Gore bay harbor master as we struggled through 5-7 ft seas and I could not leave the helm.

John V. Nin Bimash II
77 C25 sk/sr #153

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2003 : 21:44:29

Went without nets or lifelines on the first boat. Noeta has life lines, and I'm glad to have them. The kids wear PFDs anytime they're on deck, and they wear them when they are playing/ fishing on the dock. Neither has ever fell off the boat, but both have walked off the dock. Mom and Dad usually (OK, sometimes) wher inflatable fanny pack style PFDs. One more thing- no one gets into the dink without a PFD on.

Doug - #1913 Noeta

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