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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Got my new rudder

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/21/2003 : 07:58:33

Hello all,

I need some advise. This may have been addressed here already, but I couldn't find it in the archives. I am getting ready to put my new balanced rudder on the boat, and I have two questions:

1. Do I need to put any type of anti-fouling paint on the portion of the rudder that is below the water line? If so, can anyone recommend what brand?

2. I need to attach the rudder hardware from my old rudder on my new rudder. I've done all the measuring to make sure the rudder is positioned correctly. The issue is this, someone earlier on this board recommended drilling overised holes for the thru-bolts, filling them in with epoxy for a watertight seal, then re-drilling the appropriate sized holes for the thru-bolts. Can anyone recommend a specific brand of epoxy to use?

As you can probably tell, I'm not very experienced with this stuff, but I'd like to get these (and other) things done this week.

Thanks for help,

Ben
Adventurous
#5553
C25 SR/SK

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2003 : 10:04:34

Hi Ben,

Yes, you should apply bottom paint to your rudder unless you trailer sail your boat. And even trailer sailing might be a good idea to use an ablative type of bottom paint. I don't know that brand is all that important other than you will probably want to match the paint that is already on the hull. That way when you repaint the whole bottom in a year or so, you won't run into any compatability problems.

As far as what kind of epoxy, just about any two part product will work fine. Remember that you are just trying to seal the core of the rudder from potential water damage caused by water seeping into the core through the bolt holes.

Also, please remember that breathing fumes from epoxy and bottom paint is potentially pretty dangerous. Apply these in a well vented area and - better still - wear a filtering mask.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2003 : 10:21:03

Ben,

If it were me with the new rudder, I would apply several coats of an epoxy barrier coat(Interprotect 2000, VCTar2,...etc) to the underwater surfaces followed by VC17M(Teflon based paint) for antifoulant. The reason for the barrier coat is rather obvious, to protect your rudder from future water absorbtion which will lead to splitting. The reason for the VC17M antifoulant is so that when you remove the rudder you will not get antifoulant all over you and your vehicle. An ablative paint can be really messy.

As for epoxy brands, West System appears to be the epoxy of choice. For more information on epoxy and it's uses, check out the West Sytem website.

http://www.westsystem.com/

Additionally, keep in mind that since the new balanced rudder protrudes partially under the stern, it must be set into the gudgeons with the rudder blade turned flat to the stern.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2003 : 11:06:27

Thanks Bill & Don, I really appreciate the advise.

Ben
Adventurous
#5553
C25 SR/SK

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2003 : 13:07:16

Use VC 17 only if you do not remove your boat from the water to trailer sail, or if you have to put your boat on the hard for the winter. The racers in my club who have to pull their boat out of the water in the winter have to repaint every spring. Air exposure will deactivate it. That is the reason for ablative paint. air will not deactivate it. I use Micron Extra with Biolux as I have to pull my boat in the winter, and I also trailer it on vacations. Green slime is a problem for me so that's why the Biolux.
There are no simple answers to which bottom paint to use. It depends on how you use your boat, and where. check very carefully the Interlux and Petit websites. The west marine catalog will also give information too. Some paints require sanding before you put it back in the water.
I just got a new rudder myself and I noticed that it doesn't have a seam like the older ones. The catalina parts guy said they have solved the problem of splitting
I did put on 4 coats of Interlux 2000 before the bottom paint.
That's my opinion, I may be wrong.

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

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eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2003 : 18:16:05

Frank,

"I just got a new rudder myself and I noticed that it doesn't have a seam like the older ones. The catalina parts guy said they have solved the problem of splitting"

I was wondering when that new innovation was going to make it into the Cat 25 rudders. I saw something a year or so ago about a patent Catalina got. If I remember right, the shell is made in one piece with an overlapped seam instead of two pieces with a clam shell configuration. The shell is placed in a mold, foam is pumped into the center, it cures, the seam is fared and finished. It seems to me that the actual seam is on the side and not on the edge that bends and tries to as the clam shell design did.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2003 : 21:09:58

Eric

That would explain why I couldn't find a seam. I also drilled out the holes for the pintles so I could epoxy them for moisture protection and there is what appears to be a wooden spine, or some kind of reinforcement, not just foam. I worked in some West epoxy with a pipe cleaner for an applicator. I'll drill it for the 1/4" screws. The rudder came with new pintles and they are lots heavier than the original ones too. The whole rudder is really heavy and I'm hoping it will last. Of course the 4 coats of epoxy and 2 coats of paint should protect it too.
Just for everyone's information, there are 3 different size balanced rudders. Make sure if you order one you get the right size.
Time for a brewski now.

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2003 : 21:11:06

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2003 : 22:04:50

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I just got a new rudder myself and I noticed that it doesn't have a seam like the older ones. The catalina parts guy said they have solved the problem of splitting
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Mine is holding up after two seasons in the slip, but I just saw another C-25 balanced rudder that had spent the winter on the transom at our boatyard, and it was split top-to-bottom, fore and aft. Very sad. The lesson may be to keep the rudder from freezing--regardless of vintage. Moisture can enter at the pintles, the tiller, or through any ding above or below the waterline. Water won't swell the foam core by itself (as it does the plywood core in the older rudders)--unless it freezes.

Ben: You should thicken the epoxy with something like microfibers, available wherever West System ingredients are sold. Pick up their pamplet for details. But the trickiest part is aligning the holes so the bolts catch the pintle holes on both sides. The blade is not flat, and there is no room for error with the pintles. I did it by starting with very small bits, drilling in from both sides, and adjusting for the errors. A drill press and some shims would be a better solution.

Good luck!

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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Raskal
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2003 : 17:46:56

As an alternative to microfibers I wanted to highly recommend a marine epoxy that isn't widely known but I came across at a local hardware store: PC-11 (go to http://www.pcepoxy.com/pastepoxies.htm). This stuff dries to the texture of starboard, only harder, or, as the package says, "harder than most surfaces it is applied to". I drilled out my pintle bolt holes oversized (because I wanted to use larger bolts for the new stainless pintles, which also required enlarging the holes on the pintles themselves). This stuff is very tough and I can't imagine it cracking under load or losing its attachment to the wood core. I plan to use it for more bolt-hole reinforcement on the deck.

Rich Kokoska 1984 C25 #4603 FK/SR "Coolatta"

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