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New to the C25, quick question.

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cclark
Navigator

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USA
104 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/05/2003 : 02:48:07

Well, it looks like I successfully installed the forestay and furler.
Now a quick question:
I have a tall rig, but when raising the main, the boom rises four or five inches up the mast. Is this normal, or did the PO replace the main with a standard rig sail?
Thanks again for everyone's help.
Chris

"Ora Serrata" '83 SK/TR

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 02:55:57

Chris,
Did you attach the down haul. It you don't know what this is, it is a line attached to the boom that comes down to a cleat on the mast. There should be a black tape or reminants of the tape at the top and bottom of the mast and at the end of the boom. These are class designations of how far up, down, or out that the sail can be moved.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 08:39:15

Matt is right, both a boom downhaul and a voom vang are needed to keep the boom down.

dw

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 09:42:17

Congrats on your new boat. welcome to the family!

Steven de Filippis
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy

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cclark
Navigator

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104 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 10:28:58

Matt,

Boom Down haul? I thought downhauls were for sails. I have a topping lift and a boom vang, but I don't think that is what you were talking about. Where does the Boom downhaul attach?

"Ora Serrata" '83 SK/TR

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 10:35:09

The downhaul is attached through a hole at the bottom of the gooseneck and is tied off to a cleat below the boom.

A line that is used for dowsing a sail is generally referred to as a dowsing line.

Click on this link to the C25 manual, and you will see the hole at the bottom of the gooseneck.

http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/pc16.gif

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 05/05/2003 10:39:57

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Champipple
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Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 10:40:07

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Matt,

Boom Down haul? I thought downhauls were for sails. I have a topping lift and a boom vang, but I don't think that is what you were talking about. Where does the Boom downhaul attach?

"Ora Serrata" '83 SK/TR
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

A downhaul is any line pulling downward - regardless of its attachment. In this case it is similar to a cunningham, on the boom goosenect there is a small hole, there should also be a cleat right below the gooseneck. In a simple rig job, run some line through the hole and cleat it off. If you want to get a bit more elaborate, you can get a cunningham hook and run it through a fiddle block.

Take a look at this link to find the hole to which I am referring. Right above #7 is the hole, just to the right of #6 is the cleat.

http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/pc16.gif

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 13:12:09

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>A downhaul is any line pulling downward - regardless of its attachment.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Duane,

If any line pulling downward is a downhaul(which, yes, technically is correct) regardless of its attachment point, and the order is barked to "heave on the downhaul", do you tension the cunningham, the downhaul, the vang, the mainsheet, or dowse the sails?<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 13:52:57

Chris,

You got a good discussion going re. downhauls, and that may help with your situation. However, I think you want to determine whether your sail is tall rig main, or a std rig main. the c25 rules provide the information you need to determine which it is:

c. Mainsails

(1) Luff - The length of the luff shall be taken as the distance between the uppermost point and the lowermost point of the leading edge of the sail. The dimension shall not exceed:

Tall Rig - 27' 8"; Standard Rig - 24' 8".

To be absolutely sure, you'd probably have to take the sails off the boat and spread it out on a floor, and tension the luff. but perhaps you can judge the length when its raised.

hope this helps,

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 14:32:41

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>A downhaul is any line pulling downward - regardless of its attachment.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Duane,

If any line pulling downward is a downhaul(which, yes, technically is correct) regardless of its attachment point, and the order is barked to "heave on the downhaul", do you tension the cunningham, the downhaul, the vang, the mainsheet, or dowse the sails?<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

The second I typed that, I knew someone was going to correct me.

Part of the problem with the C-25 Downhaul on the boom is that most other booms on other boats don’t slide up the mast kerf. Thus its an item that is named only for a very small population of boats. Brigs Swift Cunningham developed his own sail control, maybe we should call ours the "Butler."

On the Evelyn 32 the only downhaul is what is technically the fore-guy, but for some reason, in the Evelyn circles, the line providing downforce on the spin pole is a downhaul.

So Don, in your question, it would be the same as saying pull on that 3/8 inch Diameter line. You would have to ask “which one?” As long as the crew you sail with knows what you are talking about it doesn’t matter.

Since I know Don L. is already finding links to 50 nautical dictionaries for his next post on the technical definition of a down haul, let me take care of Chris' question.

First, Chris, if all you want to know is do you have a standard rig main or a tall, grab the tape measure and do what Don Peet says above. Grab the tapemeasure and have fun.

If indeed it is a tall rig main sail, as I suspect it is, the boom probably rises do to the wind forces on the sail. This is a highly inefficient sail shape and should be corrected. (unless going downwind, but that would be circumstantial and not relevant for now)

To fix this, do the following, and notice I didn’t use the term down-haul.

There is a hole on the gizmo that the boom attaches to. Tie a small bowline through that hole with a small length of line. Cleat it off at the cleat that is directly below the hole.

Done. Problem solved…..

Incidentally – there is tons of duplicity in sailing terminology. Take for instance the topping lift – It could be the line attaches to the mast and boom, keeping the boom up when not in use. It could be the line holding up the spinnaker pole, (sometimes referred to as the pole lift)

On smaller one design boats, twing lines are the short lines “Twinging” in the Guy for the spinnaker. On Bigger boats they are Tweaker lines. (also known was Tweaker lines in Europe)

You have a Fore Peak, a Fo’csle and a forward berth. You have Port and Larboard, although rarely used. Many of the terms are regional too. In Cleveland, many people refer to the Spinaker as a “Kite”. In other areas its known as the “Chute” (short for Parachute).

We have a set of Small check stays on a boat we race. But in reality, they are probably running backstays, or adjustable lower shrouds.

Because in the days of Old, men (and women, but usually not in a respectable capacity) went to sea for many months at a time, the terminology developed became specific to the boat it was developed on.

What matters is that the crew understands to what you are referring.

I am just glad that anybody I sail with know that if I am coughing, my throat is dry, and the person closest to the ice box better be grabbing my beer.

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Duane Wolff on 05/05/2003 14:38:57

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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3322 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 15:08:53

Strangely enough, "This Side Up" does not have a boom downhaul (nor any line for keeping the gooseneck down) nor any cleat below the boom, and we never have a problem with the mast end of the boom rising up, even in heavy air...
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 15:39:48

I think Chris realizes that he has a tall rig, he just wants to know why when hoisting his main, his boom goes up 4 or 5 inches.

Chris, as was stated earlier, the C25 has a floating gooseneck, which means that it slides up and down in the mast slot. To keep the gooseneck(boom) from rising when hoisting the main, you can use a downhaul on the gooseneck to stop the hoist at the proper location.

Aboard my boat instead of a downhaul, I have a slide stop inserted in the mast slot both above and below the gooseneck which allows it to move only about an inch(it is now essentially a fixed gooseneck). The stop above the gooseneck stops the boom from rising just before the maximum hoist is reached on my mainsail(actually the cunningham engages before the gooseneck hits the upper stop to relieve tension on the gooseneck). The stop below the gooseneck prevents the boom from sliding downward and hitting my bimini top when I douse the main. To adjust luff tension, I use the main halyard and the cunningham.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 05/05/2003 15:48:14

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cclark
Navigator

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Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 23:53:53

WOW!
Okay, Thanks again. It sounds like the movement up the mast slot is normal. And, if I want to stop it,install the line from the goose neck to the cleat.
This is one of the reasons I purchased this boat. The help of other owners is wonderful. Thank you all again for your assistance.
Chris

"Ora Serrata" '83 SK/TR

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