Association Forum - First time sailboat buyer

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

First time sailboat buyer

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

rbaroni
Deckhand

Member Avatar

USA
2 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/05/2003 : 10:51:07

I'm in the market for my first sailboat, and I have narrowed it down to a Catalina 25 or Capri 26. The boat will be sailed on a large inland lake, and I do plan to spend a fair amount of time on it. I would also like to be able to sail it myself without too much anxiety. I'm a novice sailor. Any thoughts would be appreciated, other boats to look at would be helpful also. Thanks.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 11:15:58

I can't speak to the Capri, but I find my C25 fin keel to be an excellent boat in both performance and amenities.

I sail Lake Erie and my boat has not had any problems with what this lake can throw at it. Additionally, I'm for the most part a singlehanded sailor, and to me, this boat practically sails itself and is quite forgiving for the novice sailor(and me).

The one thing to consider if you are 6'6'' and you, "plan to spend a fair amount of time on it", is whether the standing headroom is going to be adequate for you.

All in all, the C25 is a solid, easily sailed boat that I'm extremely happy with.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2003 : 11:24:01

I second Don's opinion about the C25. It'a very stable, forgiving boat. Correctly rigged it's also a joy to single-hand.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I've had mine for 12 years now.
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 02:22:01

I have a '78 swing keel standard rig. i like the swinger because I need to trailer every summer to avoid a long, nasty ocean passage to get to my salt water cruising grounds. I bought her in 83, had her for 9 years, sold her to friends while I moved up to a Tartan 30. After 6 years I bought the Catalina and trailer back. That was in 98. That makes 14 years I have owned her, out of the 20 years ago that I bought her first. I have trouble finding more boat for the buck for the way I use one......If you get a faster boat, you usually have less room; a typical "cruising" sailboat is typically much slower than the C25. You can't go too far wrong if you get one that has been cared for, maintained and upgraded...

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 06:13:44

Richard,

I agree with what everyone has said. The c25 is a good sailing boat, and is a good boat to learn how in. I feel that a novice will learn to feel the wind and water better in a smaller boat, so while you are looking for a c25 you could rent a smaller more sensitive boat which would help you experience the feel of the forces of sailing. the c25 is not bad for that, but a smaller, lighter boat will help more.

good luck and welcome to sailing fraternity.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 08:26:53

We have a Capri 26 at Folsom Lake, formerly owned by a member of our sailing club, and I once spent an evening on her. This boat, named "Shiloh", is noticeably faster than a Catalina 25, but has less creature comforts inside, and if I remember correctly, no pop-top, so does not have much headroom. The Capri line is more racing-oriented than the Catalina line, and it really shows on the Capri 26. Trailering and launching a Capri 26 is much more involved and difficult. You will need a "Wide Load" permit, and the boat sits very high on the trailer due to the deep fin keel.

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Sacramento, CA

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 11:39:29

If I remember correctly, there's even a piece on the Capri 26 trailer that has to be removed and reattached for launching vice versa . . .

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5936 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 12:07:06

One’s choice of a boat is a compromise that depends on how you intend to use the boat. If you are enthusiastic about racing, then you will probably be willing to compromise your personal comfort for speed and good sailing qualities. If you are a coastal cruiser, you will probably compromise on speed in return for more interior space and comfort. If you are a blue water cruiser (open water passagemaker) you will sacrifice speed for seaworthiness (an ability to survive storms at sea.) If you plan to launch the boat from a trailer and then reload it at the end of the day and take it home, then you will choose a smaller, lighter boat that is easy to launch and rig. There is no such thing as a sailboat that does everything well, but the C-25 comes closer to it than any 25’ boat I have ever seen, which explains the enthusiasm most of us have for our boats.

If you want a boat that sails and races well, has good interior accommodations, and will be kept in the water, and not trailered frequently, the Catalina 25 is hard to beat. The C-25 can be launched from a trailer and rigged without extraordinary difficulty, but you really don’t want to do it for just a day sail. It’s well worth the effort if you are going to be cruising for a week or two.

If you want to launch the boat frequently for day sails, the Catalina 22, or other 22’ boat, is a better choice. With practice, a husband and wife can launch it, rig it and sail away from the docks in 30 minutes, and can de-rig it and reload it in about the same amount of time. The C-22 sails and races well, but not as well as the C-25, and its interior accommodations are simpler. The C-22 can be towed with a medium sized suv. The C-25 needs a big suv with enough power to pull it up long hills. Twenty-five years ago, I towed my C-22 1100 miles through the mountains to Florida and back with a Ford V-8 family sedan with no problems, and cruised the Gulf coast for three weeks with reasonable comfort.

If you want to race, the C-25 is hard to beat. My 1981 C-25 T/FK still beats Capri 26s and S-2 7.9s regularly (on elapsed time, not on handicap), even though she hasn’t really been race prepped for many years. When racing with handicaps, she can easily sail better than her handicap rating. Nevertheless, Capri 26s and S-2 7.9s are very good racers. Capri 25s and J-24s are also excellent racers and can be bought used for $10,000.00 or less, including trailer. If racing is your thing, it is more fun if other boats of your design (e.g., other C-25s or other J-24s, etc.) are racing in your club.

If you want to do some blue water cruising, a Flicka is a great choice. She is only about 20’ in length, but she sails reasonably well, can stand up to very severe conditions, and, for her small size, has extraordinarily comfortable accommodations for two people.

The Catalina 27 is much sturdier than the C-25 and sails nearly as well. It has about the same interior space as the C-25, but, unlike the C-25, it usually has an inboard engine, hot and cold running water and a shower. The C-27 has been successfully modified for blue water sailing.

If you are new to sailing, you should think about buying a used, smaller boat, like a C-22, and sailing it for a year or two. In that time, you will learn what is important to you and what is not. That knowledge will help you make good decisions about the compromises that you are willing to make. A C-22 is usually pretty easy to sell, and it shouldn’t depreciate much in a year or so. (I kept mine for twelve months, cleaned it up and actually made a $1500.00 profit on it.)

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 14:50:35

I think that Larry is talking about a Capri 25. These were built to compete with J-24s and Santana 525s for sales. They are great for day sailing and racing.

The Capri 26 (now Catalina 26) was originally designed to be the Catalina 26. However, at the time of introduction in the late '80s there was already a Catalina 22, 25, 27, 28, and 30 (plus larger models). The factory decided that to add a C26 to the line would be too confusing, so the boat was renamed the Capri 26.

These boats are 26'2" LOA, 22' 11" LWL, 9' 10" beam and displace 5,250 lbs. The sail area is 295 sq ft (same as a tall rig C25).

When they first came out, they had a terrible 190 or so PHRF rating that was impossible to sail to.

All in all though, they are a nice boat. They have the same keel as the fin keel C25s. And, my experience on the race course with them is that they should be about scratch with a tall rig/ fin keel C25.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 06:06:47

Steve:
That was as good an analysis of the C22 and C25 as I have ever seen. I'm currently trying to sell my 22. I'm glad I owned it before my 25. I learned a lot from her, both in terms of learning to sail, and learning how to renovate a boat. I'll lose money on it though, put too much into her. Now I can appreciate my 89 wk even more. The extra room is great. I'm also glad I bought a newer boat in good condition. I still have issues I am dealing with but is not a severe project boat.
My greatest recommendation to anyone is to spend more up front to get a boat in decent shape, unless you don't care about that sort of thing, or are on a budget, (like who isn't) There is a boat for everyone out there

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 11:09:35

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>My greatest recommendation to anyone is to spend more up front to get a boat in decent shape...<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Actually, you don't really have to spend more to get a boat in decent shape.

When I bought North Star, a 1980 SR/FK C25, she had sat for a number of years beneath a large tree in the PO's backyard. During the time that she sat, the PO did nothing to her, including keeping her clean. When I first saw North Star, the exterior looked like she was just salvaged from the bottom of the ocean. She was in excellent condition structurally, but there was moss growing on her north side, black leaf imprints everywhere, wasp and bird nests,...etc. When I opened the hatch and went inside, the interior was musty, but for the most part, quite nice. Yeah, there were a few cobwebs and stuff, but everything was complete, and I remember thinking that it was like opening up a 20 year old time capsule.

Anyway, I bought her, got here home, and cleaned her up. Underneath the years of filth, I found a boat with remarkably nice topsides and in excellent structural condition. Additionally, it looked like some previous owner took very good care of her and made many improvements like an upgraded stem fitting, SS spreader brackets, balanced rudder, split backstay, Harken furling, upgraded chainplates, a practically new outboard with only two seasons on it, new depth meter, knotmeter, lines led aft,...etc.

I've added some things myself in the year that I've had her(bottom job, autopilot, running rigging, bimini, refinished teak...) and I get compliments all the time on how great my boat looks. Oh, and what did I spend to get her.....?

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003610" border=0>
...$2,600.00! You don't really have to spend more to get more.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 11:25:30

Don,
You sure hit the motherlode on your boat. By decent shape, I did mean structurally with no major problems. I have seen many boats really trashed out, and I don't mean cosmetically. Dry rot from leaks is one of the biggest problems I have found.
My 89wk cost me 9,000, and needed a new rudder, cockpit coamings, knotmeter,and a new battery. Other than that, it was barely used also.By my choice I bought a new Honda, and a new trailer. I had to install a new motor mount after I trashed the existing one on the boat lift (Another of my dumber mistakes, like recently dropping the new rudder on my toes, breaking two of them)
I'm currently reinstalling the refinished teak, got the cushions cleaned, installed a new bow eye, installing a mast deck plate, rope clutches, lazy jacks, some lights, new knotmeter. The curtain burner wasn't ever used, and I might try it out.
Good deals can be had. You really gotta look. I'm finding that it is definitely a buyers market out there right now, as I'm trying to sell my C22

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 12:37:59

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>By decent shape, I did mean structurally with no major problems. I have seen many boats really trashed out, and I don't mean cosmetically. Dry rot from leaks is one of the biggest problems I have found.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Absolutely, Frank, I couldn't agree with you more! People should definately not bite off more than they can chew...or repair!

As for it being a buyer's market, I also agree. A week ago, a C25 swinger sitting about 30ft from my boat went for $3200.00 on eBay. This boat is structurally sound and just needs a little TLC. To top it off, it's got a somewhat recently installed 10hp Yanmar diesel inboard! It was bought by a really nice friendly couple who have never owned a sailboat before. They are in for some fun this year!

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.