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Why is my head backed up?

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/08/2003 : 09:03:59

Hello all,

Does anyone know why my head would back up a little bit after a big rain?

Clueless in Columbus,

Ben
Adventurous
#5553
C25 SR/SK

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 09:53:23

Are you in the water?

Have you used it a lot?

Check your deck fitting, is it a good seal?

I can take a few guesses. The first is that the problem is completely coincidental. You used the can, it rained and now you have a full head tank.

The second would be that your intake valve is open (and your in the water) and somehow through some crazy physics expirement your siphoning lake water. The water is coming and filling the bowl, and consequently filling the holding tank.

The third, your deck pump out fitting isn't covered properly and the rain water, with the help of gravity, is filling the tank.

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Duane Wolff on 05/08/2003 12:24:29

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 10:28:54

Oh yeah, sorry about that,

I'm not in the water yet. I'm on my trailer in a boat yard.

Ben
Adventurous
#5553
C25 SR/SK

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 12:48:42

"Why is my head backed up?"

Uhmmm...because you had Mexican last night?

As Duane said, it just maybe coincidental that it backed after a rain. If your seals in the head are iffy, it may be allowing waste to come back to the bowl. Pour and flush mineral oil down the head to lubricate the seals.

Also, check to see if the vent is clear. If the vent is plugged and you flush the head, air pressure may build up in your holding tank because it has nowhere to go, which may result in waste water being forced back to the bowl. To flush the vent, simply squirt a garden hose down the vent(but don't try to squirt 20 gallons of water into a 14 gallon tank!...Could be...uhhh, messy).

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Douglas
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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 13:15:34

One problem that can cause a head to back up is a blocked vent line. After sitting for some time these lines can become blocked either by insects or debris. Debris being from the tank side settling in a low spot in the line. Do you know the amount of waste in the tank. Here is another problem. Thinking its empty but it may be full. Ice and snow built up on one boat over the winter and the vent was on the top of the side deck. Water was blocked from running off of the boat and pooled around the vent. It entered the vent filling the tank. Third problem and common. Waste traped in the pipe going from the head to the tank (residual) slowly seeps back through the pump and back into the bowl. This is very common if your holding tank or its content level is higher than the toilet bowl. I hope your system has a syphon break in the plumbing to prevent syphoning by either the fresh water intake or the grey water out flow.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 13:25:18

Thanks for all the insight. I'll check the vent hose to see if it's plugged. If the tank is too full for whatever reason, how can I empty it. I can't imaging there are any pump out stations nearby. I live inland where boats with marine heads are not too common.

Thanks,

Ben
Adventurous
#5553
C25 SR/SK

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 13:51:25

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If the tank is too full for whatever reason, how can I empty it.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Have you ever syphoned gas out of your car to fill the lawnmower?...It's about the same, but you may want to be a bit quicker when removing the hose from your mouth as the flow starts! <img src=icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle>

But seriously, check to see if the marina/boatyard has a portable pumpout device you can use to empty your tank.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 15:16:55

If your marina doesn't have a pump out device, and/or there is nothing in the neighborhood, let us know. Between the group I think we could help you jury-rig something with an old shop vac, 3 feet of angle iron, some bubble gum and a pair of old ladies panties

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

William Matley
1st Mate

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52 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2003 : 21:51:49

Rain water is entering your system, your tank is full and your Joker Valve is leaking.

Empty the toilet bowl as best you can, find and fix your rain water entry point,(as mentioned by others already) put your boat in the water and head to the nearest pumpout. Replace your Joker Valve. That should fix things for now.

Edited by - on

Ben
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1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2003 : 10:15:50

Thanks William, and all,

What is a Joker valve? Also, how would rainwater be getting in? Through the pump out port? That's the only think I can think of.

Thanks again,

Ben
Adventurous
#5553
C25 SR/SK

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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559 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2003 : 20:12:05

I sometimes have to empty my tank on the hard and have devised a way to do it. I use a 5 gal paint bucket that has a shop-vac hose attached with a second opening for another shop-vac hose. One hose attaches to the shop-vac and the other goes into the deck pump out. a little duct tape helps make a good seal. the bucket acts as a trap keeping the goop out of your vacuum. a similar device is sold by fireplace stores for cleaning the ash from your wood stove.

If your boat is not leveled properly and rainwater is collecting along the rail and not flowing down to the scupper, it would find the easiest way down by flowing in the vent. You might want to raise the tongue of the trailer a bit.

hope that helps. By the way, you do have to dump the bucket the same way you would dump a porta pottie.

John V. Nin Bimash II
77 C25 sk/sr #153

Edited by - on

William Matley
1st Mate

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52 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2003 : 22:28:56

A joker valve is the last rubber valve after the toilet pump. It is like a rubber duck bill, 2 flaps of rubber that open when the toilet pump handle is pushed down, and closes when the pump handle is raised. The joker valve is all that stands between your clean toliet bowl and the stuff in your holding tank.

If your tank is full and your joker valve is leaking, then what you just placed in your holding tank will slowly return to the bowl.

Take a look at http://www.catalinadirect.com/head%20repair%20kit.html for a parts view of a marine toilet.

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2003 : 01:53:40

Ben do you have the ability to pump overboard ? Thru hull. If so make a flexable hose / addapter that will fit inside the through hull from the outside. Trailer to an RV dump / pump out and empty the tank. If you arent able to do that you can make a pump out addapter for your deck fitting that goes to a whale pump and pump with the whale pump into a pump out station or container for dumping. You could get fancy and make an electric rig out of one of the electric head pumps. We are interested in what you have found out so far.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2003 : 08:41:31

Thanks for all the help. I am on the hard, and will need to find a way to pump out that way. I'll be trying your ideas soon.

Thanks again, I'll let you know how it works.

Ben
Adventurous
#5553
C25 SR/SK

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77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2003 : 16:45:25

not enough fiber in your diet

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy

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Doug
Captain

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457 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2003 : 21:01:40

Our through deck vent was pointing forward. When it rained water was able to run down the vent. I turned it around and have reduced the pump out frequency.

Doug - #1913 Noeta

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triley
Captain

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251 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2003 : 22:52:15

Our lake has no public pumpout so a few of us got together and bought
an portable plastic RV pumpout tank with wheels ( capacity 22 gallons, cost ca $40) and a cheap beckson all putpose pump - not a bilge pump, but a thirsty mate all purpose sump pump with a smaller intake on it. We fitted a 6 foot length of pvc hose (ca 1/2") to the pump intake and put the exhaust end of the beckson in the large intake at one end of the pumpout tank. The process is a little slower than with a guzzler or an electric pump, but the beckson is flexible and can be used on about any holding tank pumpout. We wheel the plastic tank over to our septic tank and empty it there. Keeps a clean lake and a clean boat.

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2003 : 23:07:35

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I sometimes have to empty my tank on the hard and have devised a way to do it<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Sorry -- but visions of Randy Quaid in "Christmas Vacation" emptying the holding tank of his "RV" keep popping into my head.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
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Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 00:24:38

I really admire the effort that those of you in sensitive (i.e., ALL) environments have made to keep our environment clean.

I just can't help but wonder (Tom Paxton strikes again!) why anyone would want to have a built-in holding tank and then have to go through all of the "unloading" instead of a simple porta potti (or two).

Those older lazarettes were sure deep enough to store a backup porta potti :)

Xmas Vacation comes to mind, too. Also, "Hey Kids, There's Parliament!!!"

Speaking of going around and around again:

Gee: "Our lake has no public pumpout."

Why not?

Of course, not your fault, but the regulations seem to preceed the facilities. More wonderful government by compassionate conservatism. Make laws, instill fear, but never follow through, because there's no profit in "dumps."

Sorry...

Stu

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 No. 224 1986 on 05/13/2003 00:25:55

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 No. 224 1986 on 05/13/2003 00:31:08

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 00:56:19

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I just can't help but wonder why anyone would want to have a built-in holding tank and then have to go through all of the "unloading" instead of a simple porta potti (or two).<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Huh? I've had both and the easier of the two, by far, has been the built-in holding tank.

What is easier? Pulling up to the pumpout station and taking a minute to simply empty the 14 gallon tank once or twice a season(it's as easy as pumping gas) or offloading a smaller capacity, bulky, and relatively heavy potta-potti, transporting it to a suitable dumping facility, then returning it to the boat. And because it has a smaller capacity relative to the holding tank, this must be done several times during the season.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 01:29:46

Don

You're right, assuming that they're are available, and working, PO stations. Gee, PO is becoming Pumpout instead of Previous Owner?
Same thing?

Anyway, here's a recent post from another 'site:

"My boat is temporarly moored in the Port Washington area of LI Sound. Does anybody know of a marine pump-out boat that can clean out my holding tank. The boat was launched last week and the PO did not have the tank pumped prior to hauling. No ordors until the boat was launched. I also found that the head was in need of replacement. With the water inlet closed, the head keeps filling up with fuid and other stuff from the holding tank. I do not mind replacing the head and hoses, however I would rather work on an empty system. With all of the boats moored in this area, I would have to think this service is available. I am not used to this as I am planning on returning to the South Shore in the next few weeks. There the pump-out stations are on the docks."

So, sure, he's new to the area.

But shouldn't the PO stations be clearly marked? Aw, yeah.

But in Rhode Island, they did what they did and screwed everyone, even the folks who were doing BETTER than the runoff. And that's in a tidal region, open to the ocean.

I admire you for having a place to pumpout, with a working po station.

We don't have them here in SF Bay because they (government) just don't keep the pumpout stations working, and this is from an environmentally clean boater who's as far from a tree-hugging slug as an old VW bugger can be!!!!

Our marina's PO station has been listed for 10 years. It hasn't worked for the last 11 1/2 years.

Any ideas on what we old(er) and (gentler) liberals and C25'er's can do to get them working on a regular basis without having to do the maintenance on the po's ourselves?

Best regards,

Stu

(C25 #2459, SR/FK) former owner but still impressed with this group

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 01:59:33

If a pumpout weren't readily available then, of course, the porta-potti would be the logical choice, but my marina has a self-service pumpout facilty that makes emptying the tank a very simple task.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Any ideas on what we old(er) and (gentler) liberals and C25'er's can do to get them working on a regular basis without having to do the maintenance on the po's ourselves?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Yeah...Send the effluent to your local DNR or whomever is responsible for maintaining the pumpout stations! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 07:43:54

I doubt if most marinas would like to be in the pump out business... but I'm thinking that most if not voluntarily are otherwise mandated to provide the service.

Likely almost every one in business offers a service or product that they would rather not handle or deal with but because it simply falls within the scope of that business activity... it has to be done.

While I'm a trailer sailor...I still have a marine head on my boat because of an extended cruise each summer usually in Canadian waters. My approach was to install a macerator pump at the outport of the holding tank. Then its a simple matter to self discharge into the clean out next to the driveway if no pump out has been done at a marina.

A portie pottie just doesn't handle it for very long during any extended cruising.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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Champipple
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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 08:14:56

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Sorry -- but visions of Randy Quaid in "Christmas Vacation" emptying the holding tank of his "RV" keep popping into my head.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

What about david arquette in "Ready to Rumble"

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 08:16:17

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Our lake has no public pumpout so a few of us got together and bought
an portable plastic RV pumpout tank with wheels ( capacity 22 gallons, cost ca $40) <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

$40 Canadian...Thats about fifty Cents....Although a canadian gallon equals about an ounce after the conversion.....

Just kidding - where did you find the pump out?

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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MattL
Admiral

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Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 14:50:37

For the initial question the obvious answer is because you use it.

A while ago I asked a similar question on how to pumb out with out a PO station. Mine is the only boat on our lake with a marine head. What I did was buy a waste caddy from west marine. It is a large device with a high price, but would have cost more for me to jurry rig something similar. Works great too.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

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