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Tacking and Course from a "newbie"

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TRogers
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/12/2003 : 16:56:41

Although, I have sailed with a 14 ODay Javelin for about 3 years and am now the proud owner of a Catalina 25 (and loving every minute of it), I still have this mystery that I'm not quite sure about.

The situation is that I'm close hauled and sailing with the wind vane lined up with the vang (assumed to be about 30 degrees off the wind) in light air 5-10 knots. I initiate a tack and come about 90 (confirmed by compass and GPS) degrees which I assume should easily put me on the oppsite tack (and then some by 30 degrees). Looking up at the wind vane/vang, it indicates that I am headed less than 30 degrees off the wind, suggesting to me that I have turned less than 60 degrees.

To get the wind vane to line up with the opposite arm of the vang, it appears that I am having to turn more than 90 (maybe 100 to 120) to achieve the 60 degree change in apparent wind direction.

I'm assuming this seeming inconsistency is due to apparent vs actual wind direction, however it seems I should be able to stear at least 45 degrees off the wind in each direction however my plotted track seems to be more of 60 off the actual wind.

Am I paying too much attention to trying to keep my vane outside of 30 degrees apparent off the wind or just totally misinterpretting things? I don't think that my wind is shifting that much or that consistently.

Tom Rogers
Spokane, WA

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2003 : 17:25:20

When you look up at the wind vane are you going by the red trailing tabs. If so they could be misslocated or have been bent at different angles. If the boat is telling you one thing and the compas another its going to be interesting what is right.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2003 : 19:40:57

Tom, if you were sailing in light air, and were trimming your sails in the manner that is customarily recommended for light air sailing, you probably eased your sail shaping controls a bit, and when you trim your sails that way, the angle through which the boat tacks is more than 90 degrees. Also, in light air you were probably steering off the wind a bit more than usual, to help keep the sail filled and to keep up boat speed. Steering in that manner would further increase the angle through which the boat tacks.

Also, the faster the boat is moving to windward, the more the apparent wind moves forward. If you lost a lot of your speed in the process of tacking, that could cause you to have to turn through a larger angle to get onto the opposite tack.

In general, though, when you are beating to windward, your objective is to sail as close to the wind on both tacks as possible, and in doing so, to gain as much ground to windward as possible. When you put the helm over to tack the boat, forget about your instruments, and concentrate only on steering the boat and bringing your sails into trim for a beat on the new tack as soon as possible. If you do that, you know you are sailing as close to the wind on each tack <u>as the boat is capable of doing</u>. If you are sailing the boat to it's maximum capability, it doesn't really matter what your instruments appear to be saying.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/12/2003 20:18:29

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2003 : 21:06:35

Ahhh...one of the things that examining a gps track of a tack will show very quickly is leeway... and almost all boats that provide some degree of cruising comfort have a fare share of it. A 45 deg boat angle to the wind...very often comes out as a 60 degree track.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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TRogers
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2003 : 21:12:10

Thanks Steve!

Your comments are kind of what I suspected. To summarize what I got out of it.

1. In lighter air, you tend to not be able to sail as close to the wind, therefore the further you might have to turn on a tack. In heavier winds you will probably turn less in a tack to stay close to the wind.

2. Don't get so hung up on what the instruments say or seem to be saying. Go by "the seat of your pants" a little more.

Is that about right?

Tom Rogers
Spokane, WA

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 10:07:58

In addition to what Steve and Arlyn have said Tom, how new (or old) your sails are, and how clean the bottom of the boat is, will drastically affect tacking angles and speed through the water.

The older the sails are, the rounder they become. It becomes tougher and tougher to sail close to the wind. If the bottom has not been cleaned for a while, the boat's speed through the water will be too slow to allow for a smooth and complete tack. To fill the sails, you'll have to fall off some to get the boat moving again.

Other little things like sheeting in too tightly right after the tack will stall the sails. In light breezes it is almost like you've tacked into a header.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 12:55:20

Tom, I agree with your summary.

People are smart. Instruments are dumb. If you turn the boat until the compass or other instrument shows a certain heading, your sails might not yet be full and drawing, because your instruments only know what they are designed or programmed to know. They don't know whether your sails are trimmed flat, or full, or whether other variable factors are in play. Instruments are helpful when they tell you things that you can't easily or accurately observe through your senses.

The mainsail is a self-tacking sail. When you tack the boat while beating to windward, you don't usually release or re-trim the mainsheet. Therefore, when you put the helm over to tack, you should watch the mainsail, and when it fills and begins to draw on the opposite tack, that is a visual indication that you have turned the boat far enough. If the mainsail isn't full and drawing, then you haven't turned the boat far enough. Thus, you aren’t really sailing “by the seat of your pants.” That expression implies that you have a mystical “feel” for what is right. You are sailing by watching the visual indicators that tell you how the boat is performing.

If you turn the boat until your eyes tell you that your sails are full and drawing, then you have taken all the variable factors into account. The tacking angle isn’t important, because the boat’s design and the applicable conditions are limiting factors that neither you, nor your opponents, can control. The only question that matters is, how far do you have to turn the boat to enable the sails to start driving the boat again. If you are watching your instruments, instead of your sails, while you are tacking the boat, you are not receiving the most reliable information that tells you how to steer the boat.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 17:32:25

Tom: I think you've got the basic idea... Your suspicions about apparent wind are correct--the wind "shifts" toward the bow after you tack, and "shifts" more as you gain speed, especially when it's light.

I'll just add that light air sailing can be more complicated and less intuitive than in heavier air. Sailing further off the wind is one example. Another is trimming your sails to be more full by loosening just about everything. Dinghy sailers learn that shifting the "movable ballast" to leeward helps to shape the sails and keeps them in the best position (boom out a little) by inducing artificial heel. If you have a few bodies out with you, you can do a little of the same thing in a C-25.

In short, take what the wind will give you. If you try to squeeze out too much more, the wind will punish you (by sliding you slowly to leeward). Speed reduces leeway--the faster the water is moving past the keel, the more efficiently the keel does its job.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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