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Honda motor problems?

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RoofRoof
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USA
186 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/13/2003 : 13:47:22

Has anyone had problems with their Honda outboard?

I'm specifically talking about the newer models / 4 stroke.

I have a NEW 2001 8hp, 4 stroke, XL shaft w/electric start.

First time on the boat after purchasing it, it wouldn't start. I kept trying, and finally got it to run after over an hour.

The repairman found that the carb had rust in it. (this was a NEW motor)

A few months later when I had the 20 hour service done, and the throttle friction replaced, he went to run the motor, and it wasn't running right. Found rust in carb again, and a cracked jet. How could a jet be cracked after 20 hours of use. (I live in Florida, so no freezing of water could have happened)but, I did install a water/fuel seperator just in case.

The other night motoring out, the motor conked out. I didn't even try to see why it wouldn't re-start. Pretty sure it is a fuel or carb problem again.

I called Honda and told them I want a new motor.

So, any similar problems?????

Edited by - on

Tray
Navigator

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Namibia
224 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 15:17:43

My 2001 had always started on the 1st or 2nd pull. It did have a problem with stalling out after shifting to reverse which made docking an adventure. I just got my 2003 and ran it last weekend for about an hour altogether. It runs wonderfully, but does not start as easily as my 2001 did. It takes a few pulls, but it starts nonetheless.

When I had my first 20 hour service on the 2001, the shop said everything still looked new. No corrosion or salt.

Tray
C-250WB #554
"Weeny Bean"
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3da37b3127cce963eb621ece90000001010" border=0>

Edited by - on

jm
Captain

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Canada
290 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 15:54:21

I had no problems with a 2000 Honda HP8 XLShaft. The only time it conked out on me was when I forgot to push the pressure relief valve/button on the gas tank.. The tank pressure was finally too much for the engine to receive gas.

So, how good is the gas your using ? The Honda 4-stroke O/B's are real easy on gas, so it's not uncommon for 1 tank to last 1 or 2 seasons, depending on how much it gets used.

Gasoline does not store well over long periods of time. After several months of storage, when it lies dormant in fuel lines or in the carburetor, gas can deteriorate due to oxidation, causing performance problems and obstructions in fine filters/lines. It can also damage rubber and other polymers in the fuel system. You can add a fuel stablizer to prevent 'stale gas'..

Also, if there is water in the gasoline, it will start, then stall out. And the remaining water may stick around to rust things up.

In either situation, I'd start with a fresh tank of gas. (and make sure the guy at the pump knows its for a 4-stroke engine and isn't adding 2-stroke O/B oil to the gas)

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

Members Avatar

Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 16:47:17

Can the repairman identify a source of this rust? If it is migrating from somewhere, where? If it is something rusting in the carb (which seems unlikely), what? Junk in fuel storage tanks is the most common cause of these problems--have you looked at the filter at the end of the pickup inside your gas tank?

My dealer's winterizing service includes flushing the gas tank and hose to help prevent these problems.

BTW, I hate saying "no problem" in a case like this, but........ <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - Dave B on 05/13/2003 16:53:50

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 00:13:14

I have heard that all brands of outboard motors sold in California are under new regulations from Cal-EPA and Cal Air Resources Board. These new standards have the effect of forcing the carburetor to run as lean as possible, which likely makes the engine harder to start. And I think I heard that as of 2006, no more new 2-cycle engines can be sold here. "California" is an old Spanish word, that can be roughly translated into English as: "government agencies running amok". We are for sure the land of fruits, nuts, environmentalist wackos, and quiche eaters - but at least the sailing is good when the wind blows!
Starbucks: A secret Government experiment to see just how much they can get Americans to pay for a cup of coffee. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Sacramento, CA

Edited by - lcharlot on 05/14/2003 00:14:04

Edited by - on

RoofRoof
Navigator

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USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 14:10:01

I fill my own 3 gal tank myself with 93 octane fuel. I use carb cleaner and stabilizer. Fuel filter is clean, and the tank and line is new.

Furthermore,the 2001 Honda already meets year 2005 or 2006 fuel and emissions standards. I think that this might be the overall cause of the problem. The jets are so small that they clog easily, etc.

But, either way, how could a jet be cracked in 20 hours of service?

I run my motor enough that I finish a 3 gal tank about every 2-4 weeks.

Edited by - on

dave holtgrave
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 15:20:36

hey roof rrof
i had similar starting problems and it was attributed to a low idle
setting.
in the shop this winter they could find nothing wrong but, informed me to be sure it has a strong prime.
did all that and it would not start this spring.
i kept it in my heated garage all winter.
after about 30 minutes i turned up the idle screw and got it running.
i will be out this weekend and we shall see.

dave holtgrave
5722 tr/sk
carlyle lake,illinois

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 17:45:07

The jets are likely larger than on the older Honda 8... which was a true 8 hp discplacement motor and offered 2.25 hpg compared to 1.7 on the new motor.

The older Honda did have a float bowl blead off screw (just unscrew a couple of turns)to dispell any water in the bowl... which was required several times over the years.

Not sure if the newer motor has this or not...

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 19:58:18

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The older Honda did have a float bowl blead off screw (just unscrew a couple of turns)to dispell any water in the bowl... which was required several times over the years.

Not sure if the newer motor has this or not...
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
The first person to figure that out and reports back gets promoted to Master Marine Consultant. <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 21:35:30

<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/fueldrain.jpg" border=0>

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

Members Avatar

Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2003 : 21:53:32

Good work, Arlyn...

Now all you need is 293 more posts...

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2003 : 22:12:34

Today, I dusted off my 1995, 2 cycle Mercury 8hp, that hasn't ran since last October. I changed the gear lube, filled the fuel tank, and then lowered it into a tub of water. I grabbed the ripcord, gave it a yank, and voila'...the motor fired up at about half pull and purrrrrrred like a kitten. I was almost giddy! My eight year old daughter could have started this motor!

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 05/15/2003 22:14:56

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

Members Avatar

Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2003 : 21:10:12

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
...I was almost giddy! My eight year old daughter could have started this motor!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Giddy from the fumes... Just keep her away from the smoke! <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2003 : 21:29:48

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Giddy from the fumes... Just keep her away from the smoke!<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Although my outboard doesn't smoke much, I kinda like the smell of exhaust, it brings back memories.

Childhood memories like my uncle's gas station in the 60's, being in the pits at the track, my father's workshop/garage, or wrenching on cars when I was a teenager.

Ah, yes...the good ol' days! <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

dave holtgrave
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2003 : 08:32:37

hey don.
bingo!
you just gave your age away.
how can i tell?
i know.
dave holtgrave
5722
tr/sk

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2003 : 11:56:43

Now that the mention of smoke has come up I am reminded that I wanted to ask this question. I have a 2001 9.9 Yamaha electric start and all the other good stuff. Anyway, two weeks ago I started her up and she smoked, alot, for about 5 seconds before clearing up. This is a 4 stroke and I run her every week year round. What's up with this? Last week no smoke.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2003 : 18:01:41

If the smoke didn't stay... it was likely a sticking float needle that cleared itself after a short while. The other possibilities are only applicable if the gas line was left connected and the system not run dry, that being that gas seeped into the cylinder likely do to pressure generated in the fuel system by temperature changes. The latter is not good... as it will wash the cylinder causing wear and dilute the oil causing poor lubrication. A really bad scenario would be if the fuel line were left connected and the vent line were closed...then a lot of gas can be pumped from the tank into the motor during temperature changes. Worse even that that...is if the gas tank is above the carb and cylinder head level and the gas line left on. If this ever happens...check the oil carefully that its viscosity doesn't indicate dilution by gas.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2003 : 21:40:06

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Hey Don. Bingo! You just gave your age away. How can I tell?
I know.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Dave,

I'm pretty sure I've mentioned my age before, but I'll ask you anyway. How old do you think I am?<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

Don't guess yet,...wait until I suck in my gut! <img src=icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle>...Okay, now!

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

RoofRoof
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2003 : 15:27:30

Update on my Honda problem:

Honda said they would pay to send the mobile technician out to check out my motor.

He came out, and was dumb founded. He got it to run by completely covering the air intake of the carb. He already checked the float and both the slow and fast running jets. They were clear.

When he did get it to run, it blew a tremendous amount of blue smoke. It didn't smoke a bit the last time it ran for me.

He ended up taking it back to the shop, and has been in contact with the Honda rep. The rep has given him a couple other things to check. So, hopefully they will determine this motor is a lemon, and give me a new one. I'll keep you posted on how good or otherwise Honda is to their customers.

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

Members Avatar

Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2003 : 20:36:07

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I'll keep you posted on how good or otherwise Honda is to their customers.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Well, Alan, if that were a Tohatsu from Outboards.Com (or West Marine), you may not have gotten the attention you've had so far... My experience is that Honda expects its dealers to get it right. For that reason, and to protect the dealers who take care of their customers, they try to prevent mail-order and Web sales. That makes bargains hard to find, but support a little easier to find.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2003 : 07:46:22

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Today, I dusted off my 1995, 2 cycle Mercury 8hp, that hasn't ran since last October. I changed the gear lube, filled the fuel tank, and then lowered it into a tub of water. I grabbed the ripcord, gave it a yank, and voila'...the motor fired up at about half pull and purrrrrrred like a kitten. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I'm with you, Don. I almost bit on a new Yamaha 4 stroke at a Marine store that was going out of business. (Yes, I know. . .they're great motors.) My bank account and the thought of putting a beefier motor mount on the transom gave me pause. The next weekend I changed the plugs on my 1985 Mariner/Yamaha 2 stroke, hung it on the transom, connected everything, and fired it up. It, too, purred like a kitten, and sent me out into 25 knots wind and 2 foot waves at 5 knots (GPS). In 18 years all it's had is routine maintenance. For all the virtues of 4 strokes, I dread the day when my motor dies.

Brooke

Edited by - on

jmorrical
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
87 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2003 : 23:49:59

I have a 1998 Honda BF8A on my 1999 250 WK. The previous owner didn't put many hours on the motor or boat. Because I live in Texas I sail all year round and use my motor frequently. I have not tuned up the motor in the two years since I bought the boat. Last fall I began having great difficulty starting and there was no depending on the motor at idle speed. Once I got it started it ran well most of the time. A couple times for extended periods the motor would not produce more than about 1/4 throttle of RPM, adding more throttle seemed to produce a flooded or choked fuel situation--no HP to the prop. I suspected a carberation problem.
In January I finally gave up and took it off the boat delivering it 45 minutes south of here to the "local" Honda Authorized Repair Facility. Their evaluation indicated a major tune up was required including a carberator cleaning. Back on the boat it started and idled/ran great for 7-8 outings and then suddenly it began displaying the 1/4 throttle RPM thing again.
Back at the "local" shop they were surprized to find, finally, that the timing belt was off by two teeth. The mechanic was really stumped initially. I'm back on the water with a great running motor. This was interesting to me so I pass my experience on to you.

Jim Morrical
Trilogy III
250WK #401

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2003 : 00:10:14

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I'm with you, Don...I changed the plugs on my 1985 Mariner/Yamaha 2 stroke, hung it on the transom, connected everything, and fired it up. It, too, purred like a kitten, and sent me out into 25 knots wind and 2 foot waves at 5 knots (GPS). In 18 years all it's had is routine maintenance. For all the virtues of 4 strokes, I dread the day when my motor dies.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Brooke,

My old motor, a 1979 Johnson 2 stroke(which is still going strong on my old boat), still purred like a kitten after twenty two years without ever having a professional tune-up and with the original spark plugs. My current motor, a 95' Merc 2 stroke, also has never needed a tune-up and it starts on one pull and purrs like a kitten.

If my Merc performs like my Johnson, I figure it'll last me until the year 2020.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

NuNees
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
125 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2003 : 21:54:27

I need to know if it is necessary to fuse the starter circuit on my '85 9.9 Sailmaster. First time or two it worked great...today as i was leaving the slip the engine stalled. Got restarted but no power. Stalled again, then not response from the start switch...blown fuse. It seems that a PO had installed a 20a Time delay in circuit.
It has turned out to be cruddy withe corrosion. (Yours truley did not check that this past winter) I speculate that my trying to restart so much caused the fuse to over heat and go.
Afetr I located a good meter I found the blown fuse, wired around it and the moter started and ran well...
The shop manual makes no mention of this beign a fused circuit...so back to the question Does it really need to be fused?

Thank you for your help,
Bill Jaworowski
Moonbeams 85 C25 SR/SK # 4953 lake Carlyle, IL>

Edited by - on

RoofRoof
Navigator

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USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2003 : 13:57:19

So, here is what Honda came back with.....

They got my motor to run, and stop smoking. They think that it had too much oil in the crankcase, and somehow got in the carb. Well, the mobile service guy is the one who changed and checked the oil just 3 or 4 weeks ago.

Anyway, Honda will reimburse me for my repair bills, but will not give me a new motor.

I was very detailed in my letter to both Honda, and the dealer...letting them know that I didn't want this 'lemon' motor back. Now what? Boat US has some consumer help area, and our local Channel 8 News has a consumer advocate.

I will not let up.

And, beware that Honda is NOT taking care of their customers!!!!!

Edited by - on

jm
Captain

Members Avatar

Canada
290 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2003 : 15:25:50

Is the engine working ok now ?

If so, IMHO - I wouldn't categorize the engine as a 'lemon', just because some oil went through the carb and/or fuel system.. At fall shutdown, I put fogging agent directly into the carb and it smokes at spring startup for awhile, but it doesn't hurt the engine. (albeit fogging agent has less viscosity than engine oil)

I'd think if the carb was cleaned it would run as good as new. If the oil was introduced through the fuel system (i.e. a 2 stroke mix) then cleaning or replacing the fuel lines and fuel filter may also be necessary.

I think your beef rests with the folks that changed the oil last, and I hope they are picking up the tab for the last service charge.

Also, Honda might consider changing the color of their dipstick from yellow to something darker, so you can see where the new oil level is. (it's tough to see clear, clean oil on a bright background) Or, the mechanic could RTFM and only put the specified amount of oil in. (1 quart ?)

Hums like a Honda..

Edited by - on

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