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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/19/2003 : 18:43:22

We were out at the boat this past weekend. Our club had its anual regatta, more on that later. While there I saw a fellow messing about with his mast, which was lowered. I went to see if he needed help with his new (last year) Cat 22. What had happened was his turnbuckles came undone and the mast fell on the neighboring boat<img src=icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle>. His mast step was all bent out of shape, but the rest seemed OK.
These were a newer type of turnbuckle with a sleave that moves up and down to cover the workings. He said he couldn't get a clip on the ends of the screw part because of the slide. If you have this kind what do you use so I can tell him. I suggested stainless steel wire. I tell you I went right to my boat and put my wire back on. Hadn't gotten to that part yet this year, but it's on now.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2003 : 21:55:48

Matt,

I've got the same type set-up on the 250. Actually one of the few things I would change. It's kind of a pain when you're trying to tune the rig with those damn 'sleaves' in the way. When I commissioned the boat, we used (and I still use) cotter pins. I bend them down to fit within the sleave. The problem is that whenever I need to give a quick turn or two for re-tuning, I have to straighten the pin, remove it, give the turnbuckle a turn or two and then replace, rebend the pin. Not too efficient.

Bren Peterson
C250WB, #642, "Ruah"
San Antonio, TX

Edited by - bren737 on 05/19/2003 21:57:00

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2003 : 22:38:08

Bren... just reach in the ditty bag that every boat has hanging somewhere and pull out a clothespin and place on the shroud under the cover.

Regarding the turnbuckles... I like them as they are far superior to those previously used on C22s which used jam nuts that were forever loosening. The bronze barrel is also strong and I've not heard of any failures of turnbuckles compared to the older type which had to be inspected regularly for cracks or stripped threads.

Also... a very small pair of channel lock pliers are far superior than needle nose pliers for dealing with the cotter pins in these barrels. Mine are Sears.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - arlyn stewart on 05/19/2003 22:38:37

Edited by - on

svmoxie
Past Commodore

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USA
331 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2003 : 09:33:01

Don't Use Cotter Pins!


Sounds like bad advice right?! Instead of cotter pins on my turnbuckles what I use is 3/32 304 stainless steel welding rod. Here is the procedure:
<ul>
<li>Cut a piece about 3 or 4 inches long. </li>
<li>Bend it into a L </li>
<li>Put the short end into one of the threaded ends like you would a cotter pin </li>
<li>Mark the place to bend it for the other cotter placement </li>
</ul>

Now what you have is a C that fits in both holes at the ends of the threaded rod.
<ul>
<li>Put the C in the ends and bend both ends up or down to make the C an O </li>
<li>Clip the ends short enough to fold the very end back over the toop of the threaded rod </li>
</ul>

It should look something like this:<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3db01b3127cce880dd7646aec0000001610" border=0>

The limitation of this technique is that you lose the ability to easily adjust the rig tuning. If you are a cruiser like me and don't often change your rig tuning this is a great way to secure your rigging without having to tape over cotter pins. Everything is much easier to inspect since it isn't taped over, it is a clean looking installation and it is just as easy to remove with a pair of pliers as the traditional cotter pin.

The best source for this welding rod is a machine shop that works with stainless. You can buy it in 3/32 or 1/16 size, get 304 or 316 stainless. You can buy an entire pack but that is expensive. Instead go to a machine shop and ask them to sell you just a few rods.

Kudos to Brion Toss for this idea. Check out more in his "Must Have" book "The Riggers Apprentice"

Clif Thompson
Treasurer C-25/250 National Association.
svMoxie '81 25 sk

Edited by - svmoxie on 05/20/2003 09:34:49

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2003 : 09:49:20

We use Cotter Rings. Around the turnbuckle and through the hole.

For those of you who like to adjust your turnbuckles and still have them lock, a product such as this might help...

http://www.sailnet.com/store/item.cfm?pid=13503

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2003 : 11:18:13

The barrels on these turnbuckles are open in the middle section with a somewhat V shaped cross section. The V design yields greater access to one side for dealing with bending the cotter pins over while constricting the other side for the head of the cotter pin to lock the barrel.

Wire won't lock them...they are designed for use with cotter pins.

Another good thing about them is that bending or straightening the cotter pins is easier because the cotter pin head is restricted from rotating. While dealing with cotter pins may always be a pain... these are very well designed barrels which make the process easier.

And, the cover that slides over the barrel negates the need to rigrap although a little rigrap over the plastic end of the barrel cover will UV protect it... extending its life.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Rubin Hawkins
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2003 : 15:13:08

Can anyone tell me who makes the turnbuckle with the sleave? Model#? Part#? A couple of the shroud ends are bent and I would like to replace them. I can see how this happened and have implemented the elegant wire tie solution.

Thanks,

Rubin
Windy Joy
C250 WB #591

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2003 : 17:44:54

Please don't get me wrong, I think the new design for the turnbuckles is very cool. I just wanted to talk about being sure to tie them off some how. Cliff the design you showed looks great, I just use some stainless steal wire.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2003 : 18:17:27

Rubin,

The T tangs can be bought at West Marine... remember there are left and rights threads so be sure to get whats needed. If needed, I can look up their part numbers.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - arlyn stewart on 05/20/2003 18:18:30

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2003 : 08:17:12

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Can anyone tell me who makes the turnbuckle with the sleave? Model#? Part#? A couple of the shroud ends are bent and I would like to replace them. I can see how this happened and have implemented the elegant wire tie solution.

Thanks,

Rubin
Windy Joy
C250 WB #591

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Rubin - What are you referring to as a "Sleeve". The closed barrel turnbuckles have been somewhat troublesome over the years. (if that is what your referring to.) Do you possibly have a picture?

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Rubin Hawkins
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2003 : 11:21:12

Duane,
Here are the pictures.

The first one is a bent Pelican hook on the mast raising shroud. I have figured out what to order to replace this.

The next three show the 5 turnbuckles used for stay adjustments. As you can see there are three out of 5 that are bent on the lower end. Clearly the previous owner had problems following instructions and didn't follow the sage advise provided in this forum.

I am trying to figure out who manufactures these turnbuckles so I can replace the lower end.

Thanks,

Rubin
Windy Joy
C250 WB #591
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3db00b3127cce8831d75f726c0000001610" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3db00b3127cce8831d700f3030000001610" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3db00b3127cce8831d7f0f3f30000001610" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3db00b3127cce8831d7e772d40000001610" border=0>

Edited by - Rubin Hawkins on 05/21/2003 11:55:26

Edited by - Rubin Hawkins on 05/21/2003 12:13:32

Edited by - Rubin Hawkins on 05/21/2003 12:14:15

Edited by - Rubin Hawkins on 05/21/2003 12:15:17

Edited by - Rubin Hawkins on 05/21/2003 12:17:32

Edited by - on

svmoxie
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
331 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2003 : 13:31:04

That style of open body turnbuckle with the integrated cover is available from Catalina Direct. Item # Z1646, price is appox. 27.00 USD.

Thanks for the pictures Rubin!

Clif Thompson
Treasurer C-25/250 National Association.
svMoxie '81 25 sk

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2003 : 18:09:40

Ruben et.al.
The turnbuckles you showed are the ones the Cat 22 has. I noticed you have some pvc pipe over all also. I use to have the tubing on my boat to. Some how after lowering and raising the mast a bunch of times the rollers got left off and I can't find them anymore. With just my 110 they really didn't seem to be that necessary, except to keep me from catching a toe on the exposed wire keeping everything together<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>. Seems to me that the idea behind the intragel (SP)cover on the turnbuckle is there for that purpose. I am getting a 150 and think I should put the rollers back on to help the larger sail get around the standing rigging.
If and when i replace my rigging I would like to go with this newer design because I think they just look cool and seemed very well built.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2003 : 22:07:17

<img src="http://www.sailnet.com/store/prodimage/160x160/artbt0808-lh.gif" border=0>

The T-bolts are probably a standard size right or left hand thread T-bolt that you can get from places like West Marine or BoatUS. Sailnet has a few of these.

Here's a link to the Toggle bolts at SailNet.

http://www.sailnet.com/store/search.cfm?searchterm=Toggle& fid=1437

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Rubin Hawkins
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2003 : 12:17:07

Don,

Thank you! That is what I am looking for.

Matt,

The PVC was on the boat when I got it. The dealer said he puts it on all the Trailer Boats as a way to reduce chafing while on the road.

Rubin
Windy Joy
C250 WB #591

Edited by - on

luckystar
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2003 : 13:13:51

Thanks for this post, it reminded me that I have three bent t-bolts on the stbd side from when the guy that trailered my boat 5 years ago lowered the mast and it when side ways on the way down. I called Catalina Direct (Lindsey has such a cute voice!) and order the three with new toggles for $25. From what I priced at Sailnet, this is about what one costs! I go with Catalina Direct for most everything coz I know them and they stand my their products, not to mention, all I have to do is call up, tell them my boat size/year and they know the proper part! Love em!

Patrick Burnett, Little Rock, AR
S/V Lucky Star #2707 1982 SK/SR 
<img src="http://www.proxycreative.com/clients/luckystar/luckystar_0602_sm.jpg" border=0> 
http://www.proxycreative.com/luckystar.html

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