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single handing the C25

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/19/2003 : 19:06:49

Sunday was my first day single handing. Indiscipline has all lines led aft, and I have a tiller pilot. I spent 2 hours trying to go 2 miles upwind in very light air under 5 knots. Average boatspeed 2.5 knots.

I had a lot of trouble tacking and often got hung in irons with the genny backwinded and the boat blowing back down onto the original tack. Here is what I did, suggestions welcome.

Tried to get boat speed up over 2.5 knots by falling off a little.

Sheeted the main flat.

Put the tiller hard over for the new tack. I turned the boat about 110 degrees (rather than the 90 for a normal tack) to give myself more time to get the genny over.

Released the genny sheet.

Locked the tiller to amidships on the new course using the tiller pilot (did not have it steer a course).

Quickly tried to winch in the genny on the new tack.

Paid out the main slightly.

"Hardened up" the course back to about 90 degrees off the original tack.

However, I often ended up in irons or with the genny backed and no choice but to return to the original course and try again. Giving myself more room (by turning 110 degrees rather than 90) seemed to help.

Suggestions welcome.

By the way, I finally made the mark, a whistler bouy off Dana Point, and then turned down for the "run" home. Even though the boatspeed went to 3.5 knots with the wind it seemed so slow I decided to motor back.

Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2003 : 19:14:54

Only thing I see that you might change is sheeting the main in tight. Over the years playing about in light air here I have found heading off a bit in light air and sheeting out helps. Light/loose. No boom vang tention. Loose Cuningham. Same with the head sail loose loose loose in light air. Head off and get more speed quit trying to pinch to close to the wind in light air it just doesn't work. Head off a bit. You may need to go a bit further but in the end you will get there quicker.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2003 : 19:40:43

I want to mention that I had the outhaul very loose, the backstay adjusted loose, the genny halerd was loose, vang was hanging limp. I was getting enough air to fill the 155 genny, but the main was generally not filling very much. I also left the traveller centered all day. I could have loosened the main halerd.

I was sheeting in the main in order to have only 3 things to do - tiller, port genny winch and starboard genny winch. I guess next time I will just let the main self tack.

Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

Edited by - on

ddlyle
Captain

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302 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2003 : 19:42:17

I'm fairly inexperienced in single handling. The first time I did it, I ended up getting tire tracks on my port side (from a piling that got too close to me).
But one thing I find myself doing sometimes on a tack is holding the tiller over to leeward with my back for a moment so I have both hands available to handle the jib sheets. That MIGHT give you a second to release the one and pull in the other before reaching around your back to grab the tiller to correct your course.

As for the main sheet, I think that after you correct your course on the new tack, to help you gain speed out of the tack, you could then ease the main slightly for a few seconds to help the sail fill, then sheet it back in.

Of course before tacking I'll have the windward jib sheet set up on the winch so I can pull like crazy after I release the leeward sheet. I also keep the sheet in my hand so I don't have to reach for it.

Keep your distance from buoys and pilings, especially when there is a current.

Cap'n Dave
Sailing The Blues
1986 C25 sr/sk #5413

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2003 : 22:49:52

If the windspeed was less than five knots, you were trying to sail too high (into the wind) when tacking if your tacks were 90 degrees apart. Sail lower -- let the main fill before sheeting the genny. The main sail is the main sail.

Also -- it's not clear to me whether you did this or not -- don't release the jib sheet when tacking until it backwinds. That will help push you through the tack. After the main has filled on the new tack, trim the jib.

You'll sail faster on a lower course, which will compensate for the direction. When the wind picks up, you can sail higher. Also, as your boat speed picks up, raising the apparent wind speed, you can adjust the course a little higher.

Brooke

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2003 : 00:08:02

Tacking single handed can occassionally look like a one armed paper hanger at work... you offered that you have an auto helm... many of them will do auto tacks... with the tack angle pre-programmed. Ought to let you concentrate on the sheets.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2003 : 11:40:35

Hi Jim,

I single hand Snickerdoodle frequently and can think of a couple of things that will help you.

First, do not (repeat, do not) have the main sheeted flat. You need to have a nice round shape in the sail for it to work efficiently. Sheeting the main flat often hooks the leach and stalls the air flowing over the sail.

Second, adjust the traveler all the way to windward and use just enough mainsheet to nearly center the boom. When you tack, the boom will end up at about a close reach angle that will help get you going and pick up speed.

Third, as Brooke said, don't sheet in the jib until the boat starts moving again after the tack. And, don't sheet the jib too tightly. It too needs to have a rounder shape in light breezes.

Fourth, don't be in a hurry. Especially in light breezes, you won't break anything - so take your time. Follow this scenario: before the tack, sit to leeward and uncleat the jib sheet. Start turning the boat slowly at first the a bit quicker as she comes into the eye of the wind. Let the boat turn to about a close reach angle to the breeze. Release the jib sheet from the winch after the bow has swung through the eye of the wind. Take a couple of turns on the new leeward winch with the new loaded jib sheet and trim in about 80% of the way. Let the boat get moving. Adjust the traveler to windward (you won't have to mess with the mainsheet). Trim the jib so that the leach is about 3 or 4 inches outboard from the spreader tip. Again, take your time with this maneuver. If you try to go too fast, the rudder stalls and stops the boat, or the sails might stall and leave the boat in irons.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2003 : 12:46:36

Bill's advice is right on target. (except for timing, I like it to happen very fast) I would like to add one thing I didn't see in any post. In light wind moving the jib sheet car forward will help the genny keep a rounder shape and produce more power. In tacking forward motion is everything because you need it to carry you through the turn while the sails are unpowered. I singlehand all the time, my crew being 9 years old. We are often out for 15 days or more. She's a good radio opperator and a great helmsman when sliding into an anchorage but sheeting in the genny is not something she has enough strength to do yet. I generally leave the main cleated through the tack and concentrate on the jib. In preparing I usually set up the sheet on the windward winch in advance then fall off a few degrees and while releasing the leeward sheet push hard over. (those of you who advise leaving the jib cleated until the bow has crossed the wind line forget that prior to that moment the wind is pushing the bow in the other direction. releasing the jib takes all that pressure away and allows the bow to come around swiftly.) With my butt holding the tiller over I begin to bring in the sheet, my goal is to get it in as far as possible before the new tack angle begins to power the sail. For me it is easier to ease the sheet than to have to winch it in without someone tailing. once the sheet is in and cleated, my first goal is to regain forward momentum without a concern about heading. once back to 4-5 kts. a glance at the compass will tell me where I need to be and I make minor sail adjuctments then. this all takes about 15 seconds.

John V. Nin Bimash II
77 C25 sk/sr #153

Edited by - John V. on 05/20/2003 12:49:10

Edited by - on

jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2003 : 13:34:40

Hi Jim,

One thing you don't mention is if that 155 genny is getting hung up when it comes past the shrouds.

If so, making a set of rollers for the forward lower shrouds out of PVC is an easy fix. They will hurry the sail across. On Hey Jude it made a whale of a difference when I had to tack out Redwood Creek for a mile, directly into the wind usually. The channel was only 40 yards wide in some places.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
Half Moon Bay, CA

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2003 : 13:46:35

Don't sheet in the jib too tightly in light air...and always give the boat time to accelerate before you bring in the last foot or two of jib. (this could be 20 seconds, it could be a lot longer)

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

gnorgan
Admiral

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USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2003 : 14:07:45

Hi Jim. Isn't it great to get all this advice on just tacking? <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>
Now we need jibing, using a spinnaker, etc., and then put all in a convenient website location for future reference.
I've sailed out of Dana Pt. many times years ago on a Prindle 16 for racing purposes. Had my C25 slipped in Oceanside. Sailed Long Beach, San Diego, Ventura. One commom denominator was that in extremely light air, the wind hardly ever blew from the same direction for very long. In other words, maybe by setting the auto tiller pilot you set yourself up for a wind shift and your boats' being put into irons because the pilot only knows compass headings, not what the wind is doing "at that moment"<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
Might account for why sometimes "you make it" and other times you don't......just a thought.

Gary & Susan Norgan
C25 tall/wing
Classical Cat #5944
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc35b3127cce94ddf43b35f60000001010" border=0>

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2003 : 15:39:19

Thanks, lots of things to try!

I will let the main tack itself and adjust the traveller as suggested.

I will not try to point so high and keep boat speed up.

I have the PVC rollers on the forward lower shrouds. The UV cover on the roller genny sometimes still gets a little hung up there when backwinded. Not really a problem, I can pull it through.

I held the genny sheet in until it backwinded. It took a lot of practice (plus 3 hands) to coordinate the rudder and sheets by yourself.

The autohelm DOES have an auto-tack. I don't know how to use it. I will read the manual.

I will try using the traveller as suggested (to windward in light air).

I'll try adjusting the jib sheet car forward in light air.

The spinnaker pole and sail is home in the garage. I am not going to try it for a while. The boat is all set up for it. We'll wait awhile before I start that thread!

Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2003 : 17:04:38

In very light air, the wind becomes so light that it can't overcome the weight of the sailcloth, and the sails hang limp. If you heel the boat to leeward by shifting your weight, gravity will cause the sails to fall into their correct shape and drive the boat.

Heeling the boat also reduces the amount of wetted surface(i.e., the part of the boat's bottom that is in contact with the water). By reducing the amount of wetted surface, you reduce the amount of drag on the boat's hull. Since you have a tiller pilot, you can set it for the desired course, and then stand over by the leeward shrouds, and your weight will heel the boat enough to improve her speed.

You said there was enough of a breeze to enable you to bring the jib across without too much difficulty when you tack. If the wind becomes even lighter, and it becomes difficult to bring the jib across, you can roll up the jib a little. The slight reduction in sail area won't affect boat speed much, and the jib will come over much easier.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2003 : 20:06:08

<font size=2><font face='Comic Sans MS'> From the May Mainsheet;
“Look for Steve Milby’s second article on racing. In the February issue he wrote about why racing can be a help to all your sailing skills. This time he tackles racing in light air. Anyone can make the boat go in a stiff breeze but pulling ahead of your opponent in light and shifting zephyr’s takes great skill and the patience of a saint.”
It’s a terrific article and it addresses this thread. If you are a member you know how well Steve writes about the C25. If you are not a member join now and start getting the Mainsheet and see what it has to offer all C25 and C250 owners.
John Gisondi
Mainsheet Contributing Editor
C25/C250 National Association
</font id=size2> </font id='Comic Sans MS'>

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
[url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/photo/peregrine2.jpg"]"Peregrine"[/url] C25-#4762 FK

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Shawn
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2003 : 22:35:35

I don't have roller furling I have hank on head sails. So this may not work as your sail will be partially furled and screwing up the air flow.
You said it was light air and you were sailing with a 155 headsail. When I first started sailing single handed I would go with my working jib (100%) even in very light air. It is a lot easier to sheet in and keep the boat moving after the tack. It doesn't take a lot to move the Catalina. So as long as your not racing anyone try going smaller with your jib until you figure out a tacking system that works for you. A couple of other suggestions that people mentioned and I use as well were: Have the lazy sheet around the winch with all of the slack out of it before begining your tack, and backwind the headsail a bit as it helps drive both the bow and the sail around for the new course.
Most importantly, keep at it. Some of my most enjoyable sails are single handed. It is good for the head, as long as you are comfortable and confident in your abilities.
Relax and enjoy
Shawn
Silmarillion 1980 Cat 25 tr/fk #1960

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martinsokolowski
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2003 : 22:52:40

I use a simple "mechanical" self steering system as described in John Letcher's book: "Self Steering for Sailboats". Aside from the low cost it uses the wind to control the direction of the boat. Wind can be very changable when lake sailing and steering to a compass heading can get you in a bit of trouble.

Basically the jib sheet goes to the tiller (I have it led through a small block to change direction a bit so it approaches the tiller at 90 degrees) and an elastic cord is tied to the tiller and something solid (in my case the sternrail) on the windward side. This mechanical "feedback loop" keeps the boat on a fairly straight couse w.r.t. the wind.

Martin
Catalina 25 Hull 742.

Martin Sokolowski
Plano, TX
martin.sokolowski@verizon.net

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