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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

mainsail single line reefing

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dave holtgrave
Captain

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USA
427 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/27/2003 : 11:56:26

i have my mainsail set up just like all the single line systems' including,harken.

when i pull in to reef i frist drop the main and start gathering.
the front reefs down but then the back part still is open and i have to force the line forward to get the back end reefed.
when i shack out the reef the front opens fine but the back will not run out.

should i be pulling the reef on first to tighten the back part then drop the halyard to tighten the tack?

any ideas will be helpful

dave holtgrave
5722 sk/tr
sailing carlyle lake in southern illinois

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2003 : 15:53:40

Hi Dave,

It almost sounds like there's something binding between the two cheek blocks on the boom. Try lowering the mainsail slowly while simultaneously pulling in on the reefing line. That's what I do on Snickerdoodle. This process seems to give about the same take up on both clew and luff reef points. And, both end up at the boom at about the same time.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2003 : 17:21:13

Single line reefing presents challenges. Ideally, the system should be designed so that it hauls the tack in place first, then the clew. The usual problem is that the clew is much harder to pull down. This is normal and why the clew reinforcement on the sail is substantially stronger than the tack. Most simple single line systems when continuing to haul simply pull harder on the tack and don't effectively haul the clew into place. The result is a temptation to place the line on a winch and the result could be a damaged sail with a clew torn out.

A well designed single line system uses a technique that provides 1:1 purchase on the tack but 2:1 purchase on the clew and is designed in such a way that the tack sets prior to the clew so that hauling on the clew is against the tack rather than against lower slugs.

In practice...this isn't easy... and is very difficult unless the purchase for the clew is rigged within the boom.

IMHO, simple rigged single line reefing is losing vogue with many who've tried it returning to dual lines. The reality is that a simple two line system can be set quicker and easier than a more complicated single line system can be fought with.

For the boat with lines led to cockpit and only one clutch available... the tack line can be at the clutch and the clew line cleated at a jam cleat aft on the boom.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2003 : 23:38:46

IMHO there are three prerequisites for a successful single line reefing system:-
1. Use 3/16" line, nothing larger (it avoids most of the friction).
2. Have the outhaul fully tensioned.
3. Have the turning block at the aft end of the boom far enough aft of the clew that the reef line makes as large an angle as possible. Thus, when you reef, the leech reef cringle is pulled both back AND down.
I've used a single line system for at least 10 years and it works well - usually taking less than 30 secs to put in a tight reef.
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2003 : 15:01:44

Hey Dave,

On Hey Jude I have single line reefing on both the first and second reef points. The first reef gets used on nearly every trip.

I have learned the secret for me is to be sure everything is released, yes, that includes the outhaul because my outhaul leads aft at the base of the mast and pulls the boom down like a downhaul.

With the main eased out, I can haul in the reefing line as I ease out the main halyard at the same time and get a fast, easy reef. The angle of the aft cheek block pulls the aft cringle like a clew outhaul and tightens the foot.

Then I re-set the mainsheet, downhaul, vang, etc.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
Half Moon Bay, CA

Edited by - on

JOHN SAINDON
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2003 : 19:39:28

Derek : are you sure you use 3/16 line on your single line reefing ???
that is about the size of small twine ?????

John Saindon "stuart Little" Cat 25 sr fk

GERARD A. SAINDON

Edited by - on

triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2003 : 22:52:32

I think he meant 3/8" line. It should work anmd not bind.

Tom

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2003 : 23:03:55

Yep! 3/16" it is indeed. Seeing as the line runs thru' a cringle, a turning block, 3 eyestraps, a turning block, another cringle, another turning block, and a deck organiser it needs to be low friction! (I also use 3/16" for the topping lift...)
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2003 : 08:58:11

I will be installing a single line reef in the next few days. It is very simple in design. I would like your opinions.

I start with a bowline tied to the original eylet on the port side of the boom. (I should note I only have one set of reef points in the main.) From there run the line, 5/16ths by the way, through the tack reef point to a cheek block on the starboard side of the boom. The line then runs through some small leads on the boom to what looks to be an original cheek block on the aft starboard end of the boom. (not the outhaul block). It goes up through the clew reef point down to another cheek block port aft side ( all blocks are lightweight but can handle the load) to a cam cleat.

Any thoughts.

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2003 : 10:53:19

Duane - if your cam cleat is on the end of the boom, it may be difficult to reef or unreef when off the wind (with the boom outside of the lifelines). Mine runs the other way - from the aft end of boom, thru' all the accoutrements and back along the side of the pop-top to a simple clam cleat. We can reef/unreef no matter what point of sail we are on. I've found that the 3/16" line is perfectly adequate for the job - it doesn't need to be jib sheet size (IMVHO)
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

Edited by - on

dave andersen
1st Mate

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85 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2003 : 14:46:29

Put me down for two line reefing on the main. Single line has too
much friction in a real blow. Works fine at the dock, but if you are
caught in a sudden Santa Ana like I was on the Pacific -- you want
the control of two reef lines; one for the clew and one for the luff.
Everything comes down snug and in about 1 minute. ps. it also helps to
raise the topping lift so there is less clew to haul in.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2003 : 13:36:41

After the discusssion on the size of my reefing line I measured it today. It is definitely 3/16" (as in three-sixteenth's of an inch diameter)<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle> The topping lift, outhaul, and traveller modification control lines are also all 3/16".
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2003 : 21:48:43

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
...It is definitely 3/16" (as in three-sixteenth's of an inch diameter)<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Nuts! I bought 5/16ths for mine, but then I'm leaning hard toward a 2-line system so I can snug the luff before the leach--hopefully reducing the stress on the lowest slug.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2003 : 22:36:24

Sorry about that Dave! But I did tell you what I used...
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2003 : 00:32:47

The clew seems to always need more tension than the tack. Single line reefing systems seem to ignore that fact. More line, but more control with two lines.

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2003 : 09:57:55

I still prefer a one line reefing system, both for it's simplicity and it's speed. We have never had a problem with getting a solid set on the clew. We keep going to weather, ease the main halyard to a preset mark, haul in the reefing line and cleat it. My superb crew's record is 21 seconds...we do not use secondary tie down lines, in fact TSU doesn't even have cringles for them! I am sure that part of the ease with which we can reef is due to the narrow diameter line.
Try it - you might like it!
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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