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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

wheel steering price tag

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jeffj
1st Mate

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USA
63 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/02/2003 : 18:46:47

I was wondering if anybody had insight on the cost of adding a steering wheel and losing the tiller? I would not do any work myself as things always get ugly when I do that<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>
Thanks.

'85 Cat 25'

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2003 : 00:30:34

$1500 to 1800

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

LJ
Deckhand

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USA
4 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2003 : 01:11:17

Doug, Can you provide any details?? We are to look at a 85 cat 25
and would like to convert it if we bought it.
Lee Taylor "LJ"

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cclark
Navigator

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USA
104 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2003 : 02:24:13

Consider me naive, but I don't understand why anyone would want to put a wheel steering on a C25. From my experience, they are harder to control than a tiller (for smaller boats anyway). Also, except for the item I saw in tech tips, any wheel would take up more cockpit space than the tiller.
JMHO
Chris

"Ora Serrata" '83 SK/TR #3749

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2003 : 09:37:57

When I was choosing how to outfit an about to be purchased C250... I labored over two items. I talked myself into the roller furling fairly easy... but the wheel steering was a much tougher issue.

My Hobie had been helmed with a stick and the C22 with a tiller and both were fine with me.

The C250 however was planned to be cruised, and that single aspect kept nagging at me that a wheel might be a good choice for it. I had cruised a few times on a C30 with wheel and enjoyed helming.

I was riding the fence...unable to make a decision and the dealer was ready to order. In fact, he called and said there was a boat just like I wanted under construction and available... it had the wheel. He had been an advocate of not getting the wheel and I was leaning slightly against it.

It turns out that there were either incentives involved between Catalina and the dealer for this boat or the dealer had cash flow issues... as I could have delivery of this boat in about 30 days at a cost equal to that of a ordering a tiller model with about a three month delivery (verified by a quote from another dealer).

That kicked me off the fence. It was later that I discovered the real value of the wheel for me and crew. That being, the wheel offers standing exercise which I believe goes a very long way in making cruising more comfortable on a small boat.

As far as taking up cockpit space... yes and no. It takes space...yet gives it. It puts the helmsman aft of the wheel with all the area ahead free for the crew. Five adults can easily enjoy the cockpit while sailing. Generally speaking, a wheel then is thought to add cockpit space.

Wheel steering has cost with the initial expense only part. The c25 has a narrow cockpit sole compared to the c250 and getting around the wheel would mean traversing over a settee. Single handing is not as friendly as with a tiller. Maintenance... small boats have traditionally used sheathed cables that have had their problems and are expensive to replace (hence why I modified to an open cable system).

I have enjoyed the wheel because of cruising... if I didn't cruise, I wouldn't want the wheel.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2003 : 10:10:25

Hi Jeff,

Arlyn makes some good points regarding the wheel system in his C250. And some good thoughts regarding the narrow cockpit sole on a C25.

A couple of other things to think about is the location of the mainsheet system on the C25 and where the wheel needs to be located in the cockpit. With the mainsheet on the C25 at the extreme aft end of the boom and the traveler on the transom, standing behind the wheel and either tacking or jibing the boat could really clothesline the skipper. So, in addition to the expense of the wheel steering gear, you might find that you'll be spending several more basic boat units for traveler system at the forward end of the cockpit or on the cabin top.

Additionally, the location on an '85 C25 for the pedistal will need to be forward of the fuel locker hatch. The pedistal needs to be about even with the mid-point on the portside compartment hatch so that the wheel doesn't interfere with the fuel locker hatch. That puts the wheel steering system just about in the middle of the cockpit.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2003 : 10:20:35

Hi Jeff,

When I bought my boat she already had an Edson wheel installed. At first I kinda' wished I had the old tiller and the money the PO spent on the wheel, but now I'm glad I have it ... here are some thoughts ...

As far as taking up cockpit space... yes and no. It takes space...yet gives it. It puts the helmsman aft of the wheel with all the area ahead free for the crew. Five adults can easily enjoy the cockpit while sailing. Generally speaking, a wheel then is thought to add cockpit space. - Arlyn 

One other thing Arlyn could have mentioned is that there is no tiller to knock knees, and your passengers/crew don't have to sit outside the knee-knocking area.

The c25 has a narrow cockpit sole compared to the c250 and getting around the wheel would mean traversing over a settee. - Arlyn 

Although I can squeeze by the wheel, it is easier to step on the settee and go around it ... 'not really a big deal.

Single handing is not as friendly as with a tiller. - Arlyn


I have to agree with that. If you need to go up front for something it can be a challenge if it's windy. I've tried locking the wheel in place with the friction lock, but it isn't very dependable.

One big advantage that no one has yet mentioned ... virtually EVERYONE knows how to steer with a wheel. You can ask any of your crew or passengers to take the helm and they'll figure it out much quicker than they will with a tiller. The wheel also gives our little 25 footers the look and feel of a bigger boat, and it'll make your C-25 fairly unique. I suppose you could also make the argument that you'll never have to refinish the tiller either.

On the con side ... the wheel system is expensive, and prone to failure. Mine seems fine, but I've got an emergency tiller handy just in case it falls apart on me someday. Although I'm glad my boat has wheel steering, I doubt I would have coughed up the boat units myself to do the modification ... I would have spent the money on something else (roller furling system, auto pilot, etc.).

So, although it sounds like double talk, I'm glad I have the wheel, but I wouldn't have installed it myself <img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle> ... 'hope that helps!

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - on

jeffj
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
63 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2003 : 11:07:37

Hi Group,
Some great insights which really give me something to think about. Another reason I was thinking of a wheel is that our boat is in a charter program with 6 other Cat 25's and this would be the only wheeled boat which should give it an advantage in the system to generate extra income for us.
Thanks as always!

Jeff J.
'85 Cat 25'

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2003 : 12:47:48

Price wise just have a look around at the steering systems available. Triska has Edson but there are others. The figure I threw up is probably low ball of your not going to provide the labor. Getting a boat with it already instaled from the dealer is the cheapest way to go. Now for some facts in MHO. I would not put a wheel on a C-25. I would bot purchase a C-250 without it. Two totaly differnt boats. On the C-25 you cant single hand to well and keep having to climb around the wheel. It just gets in the way too much. Oh yea its great once you trim is set and you off on a long tac but when things go wrong and you need to get forward in a hurry it just a pain. It fowls your legs and seperates you from the rest of the crew. On the C-25 there is also no back bench seat so if you sit your either on one side or the other. With that all said If you do decide to have one instaled give me a shout. I have a great accessory for sitting and steering.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf26b3127cce9193fa08526a0000001610" border=0><img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cf26b3127cce9193e404d3590000001610" border=0>

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

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luckystar
Navigator

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USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2003 : 14:42:02

last year, I went through the same wants with the wheel after sailing all my friends 30+ footers. After contacting Edson and getting a quote of 1880 plus shipping for the system. I decided my main issues with having the tiller was needing something to keep the course while I relaxed, got drinks/food or checked on something/repaired while under sail. I found that a used autopilot from Ebay did the trick quite well. Do a search in the archives and you'll find several conversations about wheels and pilots. If my boat had come with wheel I'd probably love it, but being my first boat, I'm so glad I've learned with the tiller. I'm with this group, don't know if I'd put out the boat units for that when you could get a $200-$500 new or used tiller pilot and spend the rest on new cushions or instruments. Good luck.

<img src="http://www.proxycreative.com/images/autohelm.jpg" border=0>

Patrick Burnett, Little Rock, AR
S/V Lucky Star #2707 1982 SK/SR 
<img src="http://www.proxycreative.com/clients/luckystar/luckystar_0602_sm.jpg" border=0> 
http://www.proxycreative.com/luckystar.html

Edited by - luckystar on 06/03/2003 14:44:09

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Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2003 : 15:57:30

I spent a lot of time sailing in New Zealand, and there boats up to 40 feet come with tillers. I find a tiller a lot more responsive, and it gives a better feel for weather helm.

Bruce Baker
Falls Church, VA
"Yee Ha" 3573
'83SR/SK

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2003 : 16:40:14

Huh!?...A wheel steering system on a C25 gives more cockpit room?

I singlehand quite a bit and a wheel pedestal sitting in the middle of the cockpit sole(fore and aft) would be in my way, BIG TIME! And if it were in my way, I would have to think it would be in the way of anyone in the cockpit. Additionally, when in port, the tiller can easily be bungee'd off to the side freeing up the ENTIRE cockpit.

Looking at the profile of the C25, you can see that the backstay and transom mounted mainsheet don't allow someone to stand at the transom behind a pedestal, unless that pedestal was mounted well forward.

<img src="http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/bro79-4.jpg" border=0>

If the C25 had the big boat room to walk around the pedestal and sit behind the wheel comfortably, then I would be all for it, but the C25 cockpit doesn't afford that kind of room.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2003 : 16:54:56

It's got to be a lot easier to steer and control the outboard and work a tiller for slow speed maneuvering (especially when backing).

If you went with the wheel, you should add cockpit motor controls.

All in all, I'd say get a $300 tiller pilot (wheel pilots are also more expensive).

If you want to make your boat more attractive for chartering I'm sure there are lots of other upgrades you could do to improve comfort and increase fun (galley upgrades, water hearter, refridgerator, electronics, water toys, spinnaker, lines led aft, etc.)

Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

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