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Latest on swing to wing conversion

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/11/2003 : 15:56:26

Hello all,

just thought I'd let you know what the latest news is with my endeavor to convert my 87 sk to a wing. Freeman Eckly in Vermillion, Ohio has a person who does the most of their Catalina work. After talking with him many times, and after he has spoken with the folks at Catalina, he is eager to do the project. We just have to get the keel shipped over. Freeman Eckly, a Catalina dealer, is not expecting a shipment until the end of August at the earliest. We talked about cost, and he said that $3,000.00 about the cost of the keel and installation, but shipping would be extra. I expect shipping, if we can piggy-back the keel on a shipment to Freeman Eckly, to be around $500.00. Am I correct in this?

The other alternative is to have my existing keel trunk fixed, which a marine restoration company said may be as much as $3,000.00 in itself, but could be done at the end of this month. I'd rather stick with the wing conversion. What do ya'll think?

Ben
Adventurous
#5553
C25 SR/SK

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2003 : 17:34:20

Hi Ben,

Do the wing.

Remember what Archie Bunker said, "patience is a virgin". <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

She'll sail better, and, I'll bet the wing will help your boat hold value over the years too.

Go Bucks,

Paul

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/11/2003 : 19:02:47

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

She'll sail better

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

It will?

Edited by - on

f_sondergaard
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2003 : 08:32:02

Ben, I'd just be patient and do the wing. It took us almost four months to have our boat completed. Shipping piggy back is the best way to go. We saved alot of money!
Jason and Fran
Catalina 25 1982
swing to wing

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

Members Avatar

Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2003 : 21:52:01

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

She'll sail better

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

It will?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Nah... But if "simpler is better", the wing is better. It's just as trailerable, and is the most sought C-25 configuration, with the corresponding premium on price. The swing may narrowly beat both the fin and wing to weather, but there are other factors in picking a keel.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2003 : 09:13:55

Hi Ben.

We had two wing kits shipped piggy back to New York from California for $150 per. Initially Catalina wanted $1000 each which had me in orbit since my thinking at the time was that Catalina should have replaced the swing gratis. I'll not go there now for health reasons <img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

Val on Calista # 3936

Val Bisagni]<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df11b3127cce94709c5ff2e90000000010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2003 : 10:28:57

Holy Cow Val!

Was that $1,000.00 fee to ship it by itself? The $150 sounds sooo much better.

Ben
Adventurous
#5553
C25 SR/SK

Edited by - on

luckystar
Navigator

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USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2003 : 12:57:31

To those that have done the retrofit, how much more do you think the boat is worth now or is it one of those repairs/additions/upgrades that you have to eat as a boat owner? I know that I've put some $$ in my boat recently and it's still worth $8 - $10K tops without a trailer. Just curious if it helped resale value go up. If I could ever arrange the proper area, machines and people with know-how, and raise the $$, I'd do it in a heart beat just for peace of mind. Not that I'm bashing swing keels, lord knows that swinger has saved my butt on groundings and getting me places that the other boats just don't have the confidence to go. I think they are especially good for newbies (if they are kept in good shape) for this reason alone.

ALSO: How big and how much does the keel weigh (1700?)? Where is it shipped from? Is it possible to pick it up yourself? Can they load it into a large truck for you? Is it on a palette of some sort? I have a friend who owns a construction company and offered to let me use a big truck of his (dualie, diesel, etc) to pull my boat, but I'm sure I could use it for this too.

Patrick Burnett, Little Rock, AR
S/V Lucky Star #2707 1982 SK/SR 
<img src="http://www.proxycreative.com/clients/luckystar/luckystar_0602_sm.jpg" border=0> 
http://www.proxycreative.com/luckystar.html

Edited by - luckystar on 06/13/2003 13:04:02

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2003 : 10:03:52

Ben, Pat,

Ben the $1000 figure was for shipping the single keel itself. The piggyback shipment required that the recipient truck it to their worksite from the Catalina dealer that shared the trailer with their boat order.

Patrick, it is often stated here that a boat is worth exactly what a buyer is willing to pay for her. I suppose there is some truth in the statement but consider the flip side of the issue. What's it worth to the owner in other than monetary terms.

I don't spend much time lately waxing fiberglass and varnishing teak, been there done that, but do spend considerable time and money on important things (dodgers,furlers,keel replacements, sails, ssb, de-blistering, barrier coating, ablative bottom painting, proper auxiliary propulsion, auto helm/gps interface,etc. And before I'd sell my boat for what a potential buyer is willing to spend I'll sail her myself. This May when Calista was splashed someone called asking if I was willing to sell her. He was a former swing owner who sold it and bought a large power boat and was now looking to get back into sailing. I had no intention to sell but he was interested in buying. The price that I mentioned caused him to say that he thought it rather high...CLICK...He called back thinking something amiss with the connection and when I stated the price again and he began his pitch...CLICK He got the idea, the price was not negotiable. The boat was more valuable to me, ready to sail, than he was willing to pay and from my perspective that's as it should be. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Val on Calista # 3936 T G

Val Bisagni]<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df11b3127cce94709c5ff2e90000000010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2003 : 10:31:19

Ben,

Tell Frick and Frack I said Hi.....(Pilot, they sold my C-30 for me in 1991).
Just a thought. Do you have a trailer with the boat? Why don't you drag the boat to CA.....stop and see the sights on the way, have Catalina or someone near the factory do the conversion, let them worry about schleppin' the blob around. When it's done sail Catalina Island and bring her home.....just a thought. And it sounds like there might be room in the budget, especially if you can add some vacation money and combine things....<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake:
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/Forumshots/chesapeake.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Oscar on 06/14/2003 10:32:47

Edited by - Oscar on 06/14/2003 10:34:07

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2003 : 21:40:26

Oscar,

That sounds like a great idea, taking the C25 to California and all, but I think it would cost too much. My truck gets rediculously bad gas milage, and the trek to California from Ohio would be slow and expensive. Trust me, I would love nothing more than to go to Catalina Island, and I hope someday to do just that, but probably as a guest on someone elses boat when I'm there on business or on vacation. I just can't see taking the boat across county like that. Plus, I expect I'd have to take a month off work. Perhaps when I retire I can do that, but by then I want to have this conversion completed. :-)

Ben
Adventurous
#5553
C25 SR/SK

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2003 : 00:27:08

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
To those that have done the retrofit, how much more do you think the boat is worth now or is it one of those repairs/additions/upgrades that you have to eat as a boat owner? I know that I've put some $$ in my boat recently and it's still worth $8 - $10K tops without a trailer. Just curious if it helped resale value go up. If I could ever arrange the proper area, machines and people with know-how, and raise the $$, I'd do it in a heart beat just for peace of mind. Not that I'm bashing swing keels, lord knows that swinger has saved my butt on groundings and getting me places that the other boats just don't have the confidence to go. I think they are especially good for newbies (if they are kept in good shape) for this reason alone.

ALSO: How big and how much does the keel weigh (1700?)? Where is it shipped from? Is it possible to pick it up yourself? Can they load it into a large truck for you? Is it on a palette of some sort? I have a friend who owns a construction company and offered to let me use a big truck of his (dualie, diesel, etc) to pull my boat, but I'm sure I could use it for this too.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

The Catalina factory is in Woodland Hills, CA, a little north of Los Angeles. The keel is shipped from there. As to whether the swing-to-wong conversion will increase the value of the boat, that depends on what mnodel year the boat is. If your boat is a "Mark III", meaning an '86 or '87, the conversion cost is probably recoverable. If your boat is a "Mark II" ('82-'85), you might see a little of the conversion cost come back at resale. For the oldest boats. the "Mark I" (Pre-'82), you will probably not see any significant increase in the value and will end up eating the $3000. This opinion was expressed to me by the owner of Catalina Direct. He has been selling new and used Catalinas of all sizes for more than 20 years, and I expect his opinion of this issue is pretty accurate. The plain fact is that the big demand is for the Mark III and IV boats ('86-'91) because these have so many design upgrades. The older boats, especially the pre-'82's (identifiable by the gas tank in the lazarette), are just not worth that much, maybe $8000 in excellent condition and with a late model Honda or Yanaha 9.9 HT motor and pristine trailer. Doing the swing-to-wing conversion on one of these old boats is just not going to raise it's value to $12,000 when you can find a Mark III or Mark IV boat for that price (assuming you can find one at all).

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Sacramento, CA

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2003 : 09:35:17

I think the wing conversion will help the boat retain value over the years.

PW

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2003 : 10:50:08

I consider all boat upgrades to be 'sunk costs'... (no pun intended).

With rare exceptions, $X,XXX boat + $Y,YYY upgrades = $X,XXX boat.

Swing to Wing might be one of those exceptions, I think you'd get some of your investment back on it, along the lines mentioned in some of the other posts.

Not really in it for the money tho... somehow I seem to enjoy restoring old boats (other old stuff too).

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 06/23/2003 : 07:26:09

Thanks for all the insight and advice, everyone. To address the comment about the 86-91 models being the preferred model years, mine is an 87, so I'm glad to hear I have the model I have. As far as boat upgrades being "sunk costs", as ClamBeach said, I completely understand. It is easier to rationalize, however, to friends and family as to why I would "sink" $3,000+ dollars into a boat I just (relatively) bought.

Ben
Adventurous
#5553
C25 SR/SK

Edited by - on

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