Association Forum - Singlehanding Safely

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Singlehanding Safely

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2003 : 21:11:45

Jeff J. and others,

I guess I'll add my two cents to this thread. I certainly don't consider myself an expert on single handed safety. However I did, in the past month, survive a 700 plus mile single handed cruise to the Bahamas.

I have, and use, a self-inflating PFD with built-in harness, and a 3-hook, dual-lead tether. After some thought, I dissarmed the auto-inflate feature of the PFD, so the ripcord has to be used to CO2 inflate. As I understand it, one characteristic of the self-inflating PFD/harness is that once it's inflated, the wearer can't swim, work, or do much of anything but float around.

I rigged 3/8" nylon port & stbd jacklines lead outside all rigging. It looks to me like it would be very difficult to rig a tether and jackline system that would positively prevent going over the side of a boat this small and narrow. I also don't hesitate to hook on to anything that's strong and near where I need it, such as a taught halyard, the mast, standing rigging, etc.

My deep, sturdy, stainless steel stern boarding ladder is tied in the up position with a slip knot, and the release line trails in the water a foot or two behind the bottom (when folded) ladder rung.

All forward control lines (11 so far) are lead aft to the cockpit area.

I don't use, but like the idea of, the optional emergency extension for the tether, the COB (Crew Over Board) accessories attached to the PFD/harness (whistle, strobe, dye, etc.).

I use an Autohelm ST-2000 Plus autopilot. As for disengaging an autopilot in a COB situation, a 50' poly ski rope trailing in the water might be rigged so as to pop the ram off the tiller when tugged firmly. The problem I forsee here would be to prevent it from tripping during the 99.99999% of the time that you don't want it to. Maybe a slip knot at the stern rail?

A couple of years ago, I committed an alarming screw-up while single handing that left me dragging in the water while hanging from the genoa track by my fingertips, with a cut up and badly bruised arm, cut and bruised forehead, in 2' or larger whitecaps with maybe 15-20 knot winds about a mile or so from land. No PFD, harness, tether, or any other safety gear was in use (including any hint of common sense). Fortunately, no sails were up, and I had put the engine in neutral just before getting knocked over the lifelines by the boom. I dragged my sorry self back aboard using the stern ladder, and rethought my personal safety standards.

Good thread on an important topic. Thanks to all who contributed.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Greg Jackson
1st Mate

Members Avatar

84 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2003 : 09:22:22

One of the earlier messages referred to the GLSS, Great Lakes Singlehanded Society. I did the Chicago-Mac GLSS in 2001 in a Catalina 25. One of the things that the GLSS members gloss over is the number of people in their society who have died sailing. It is a relativly small group of people, yet they have lost several members. Only one occured during one of their races, other deaths were just members sailing in other races or simply sailing alone. Never the less, the numbers suggest this is not as safe as a drive to Grandma's house.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2003 : 10:20:35

IMHO stuff...

I still think the Pardey's are right... staying in the boat is the real answer. If you have to shorten your tether to keep you inside the rails, so be it. Now there's a product idea for someone. A 'quick adjust' tether... I don't believe I've seen one.

Safety netting on the rail (in appropriate areas) might be a darn good idea too.

Even with a 6' tether to a centerline anchorpoint, if you go over the railing (rather than under), you're going to be pretty close to the edge of the deck when you're stopped. I think as long as you could get your arms over the edge of the deck or 'a leg up' you'd get back on board.

On the bow, the tether anchor point should be far enough aft that it won't let you get very far over the side.

Out here you have perhaps 10 minutes in the water before being incapacitated due to hypothermia... a few hours and you're dead. If the boat is making headway, your chances of making it back aboard are pretty slim... tether or not. Your hope is that somebody will pass by and find you before the water temp gets you.

Mileage may differ for those of you who sail in warm water.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2003 : 10:29:51

dI don't understand part of this thread. If you have a 20 foot long tether, are you still using a jackline? If you are using a jackline, or two, one on each side, why do you need such a long tether. Or is this long tether used without a jackline?
I have been looking at the catalogs at jacklines, tethers and Sospenders harnesses. What do you think of the tethers that have a built in bungee? Is this a good idea?
I saw an advertisement for a personal EPIRB to tie onto your life jacket. Sounds like a Pieps radio used in backcountry skiing for locating someone under an avalanche.
Thanks

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2003 : 13:04:59

Frank, I'm not advocating use of a long teather while aboard or am I discounting the importance of staying aboard.

I'm the proponent of a teather which is long enough to clip to the short teather to allow length to reach the swim ladder should one find themselves over the side and unable to get back over the rail. In such a predicament, if the water is cold or having no jacket...death is imminent unless a way to get back aboard is found.

Keep in mind that the long teather I advocate for a single hander is coiled on the harness and only there should one find themselves over the side of the boat and hung on the six foot teather, unable to get back over the rail or get aft to the swim ladder.

Here's the deal... if hung over the side, the caribiner of the reserve teather is drawn and hooked to the eye of the snap shackle of the regular teather from which the person is dangling. Then, the snap shackle is released from the D ring and the person now is teathered to the combined length of the two teathers and has a chance to reach the swim ladder.

In such a predicament...if the water is cold, or having no life jacket... death as the Pardeys offer is imminent unless there is a way to get back aboard. The use of the backup teather and swim ladder combination is to provide that means.

For a long time, cruisers towed a warp to provide some means of staying with the boat. The hope was that once overboard, they could manage to get to the warp and hang on and even drag themselves back to the boat. I'm simply trying to improve upon that concept by eliminating the need to be loose from the boat at all, having to make a desperation grasp to the warp, having to hang on, and having to pull oneself back to the boat hand over hand.

If the reserve teather doesn't seem the answer...then how about a hand line from the bow eye swagging along the hull to the stern cleat, one on each side of the boat. My point is... there are ways to get aft to the swim ladder which is the best hope of getting back aboard.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

jeffj
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
63 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2003 : 13:26:30

Arlyn,
After reading your and many other's comments on this subject, I went out to buy a quality tether. I found one with a 3 foot, one with a six foot, and one with both. I was shopping at West Marine. I like the idea of a 3 foot tether attached to a jack line or another solid point, and a 15 footer at the ready if needed to reach back to the swim ladder. Is this something you made yourself or did you purchase it somewhere?
Thanks.

Jeff J.
'85 Cat 25'

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2003 : 14:09:13

Arlyn
I think I see what you are doing. If I'm getting this right, you use a jackline with a 6 foot tether. Only in an emergency overboard do you use your 20 footer, right?

So what about these bungeed tethers I see advertised. Do you know anything about them?

Thanks, this has been very helpful OB1

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2003 : 15:59:46

Yes, I made up the 15 foot teather using webbing, a snap shackle and a caribiner. Velcro strips are sewed to the harness on the breast strap... the tether is folded and with the caribiner on the surface, the velcro strips pass thru the caribiner. It has never posed a problem or come loose. Because the folds on the ends gain thickness, they lock it within the two velcro strips. It is folded about 4 1/2 inches long. The snap shackle stays cleated to the D ring.

If making one...insure that the caribiner will pass thru the eye of snap shackle on the regular teather... or it won't work.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Bill Sloane
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
91 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2003 : 16:15:17

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> One of my winter projects was to make a “better “ swim ladder latch. It is shaped like an S and is made out of high-density polyethylene plastic. To unlatch the ladder I gave it a yank and it popped right out<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Todd: Did you make the 'S' hook yourself? What does it look like?

Also, after reading this thread, if you have a ladder that is unhookable from the water, wouldn't it make sense if single-handing to run a long line off the ladder (say 20') that would drag behind the boat so that tethered or not, you could grab it. The rope would have to float.

Bill C-25 SK/SR No. 496
'Suede Shoes'

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2003 : 16:23:27

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The snap shackle stays cleated to the D ring.

If making one...insure that the caribiner will pass thru the eye of snap shackle on the regular teather... or it won't work.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi, guys. Very informative thread, and I would like to thank you for a year's worth of incredibly valuable information.

One thing I noted about Arlyn's system, which I intend to employ, is that the sequence may cause a problem: 1) fall overboard with 6' tether attached to jack line, 2) attach 15' tether caribiner through eye of snap shackle on 6' tether, 3) pull snap shackle lanyard on 6' tether to obtain 21' tether. The problem here is that pulling the lanyard on the 6' tether will release the 6' tether from the harness, but will also release the 15' tether caribiner. So, the 6' tether is going to have to be released and the snap shackle reclosed PRIOR to attaching the 15' caribiner to the 6' snap shackle.

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2003 : 17:27:00

I think Arlyn means you put the caribiner through the EYE (same part the webbing of the tether goes through) of the snap shackle not the opening (shackle) part of it.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - on

jeffj
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
63 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2003 : 23:55:40

I hate to beat a dead horse... but, I did find this article on-line regarding tethers and their reliability. As a Puget Sound sailor I tend to listen to their comments in these waters.
I guess the bottom line is that any activity in life that is worth doing carries risk, which includes enjoying our beloved Catalina boats.
Thanks again for the masters course I just took regarding singlehanding safely!
Take a look if interested: http://www.vicmaui.org/2000/resource_center_article_safety_ht_exec_summary.htm

Jeff J.
'85 Cat 25'

Edited by - on

jeffj
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
63 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2003 : 00:04:03

P.S. If anybody cares, I did find the courage after reading so many informative posts regarding single handing to hoist sails and cruise half a day north on the Sound by myself, spend the night at a new dock (wonderful!) and then sail home. While light winds did not require great skills, I recalled many insightful tips on single handing. My mind was searching different posts for insights which were put to good use.
Thanks to the group for that and I will definitely be heading out again!

Jeff J.

'85 Cat 25'

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2003 : 10:14:02

Yes, for sure, don't be afraid to single hand, but be prudent and safe.

Keep your harness and/or PFD on at all times when you're out of the cabin. Be sure to get a clip-on strobe light and a plastic whistle for your PFD too.

I read a news item somewhere (accuracy unverified) that in the majority of 'single-handed' MOB boating accidents, the victims fly was unzipped. Apparently going over the side whilst shooting a whizz is the cause of many MOB drownings.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2003 : 13:24:03

I'll bet there have been many accidents related to unzipped flys on boats

But I don't want to start a new thread here.

Back to one of my earlier questions:

Anybody using one of those bungeed tethers?

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

allencl
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2003 : 13:19:01

Jeff-

Interesting link to the harness / tether study. Thanks.

-Chris on "SPIRIT" C25 SR WK #5644

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2003 : 16:18:11

Frank,<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Back to one of my earlier questions: Anybody using one of those bungied tethers?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Yes. I have one of the double tailed tethers with a 6' retracting, and 3' fixed length ends. The 6', which retracts to maybe 3' with internal shock cord, provides 6' of mobility with only 3' of tripping hazard.

To me, using a tether feels plenty awkward enough without having a tether just long enough to loop under my feet while I'm trying to shuffle forward along a narrow side deck cluttered with fittings, sheets, a sail, etc. Of course, the big advantage of a dual tether is being able to work your way past an obstacle without having to be totally unhooked for even a potentially fateful moment. It also allows you to even further restrict your range, using both tether ends at once, to reduce the chance of accidently getting outside the lifelines.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Todd Frye
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2003 : 13:19:37

To Bill on "Suede Shoes".
I was out of town for a week, but I would like to respond to your question on the ladder clip. I buy scrap "high density polyethylene plastic" at a local plastic supply house. It shapes very well with common wood working equipment...band saw, drill press, sanding disk and comes in a variety of thicknesses. I have also made bases for my new cam cleat set up, and pulpit clamps to relocate my solar panel. You can also "turn" this material on a lathe to make your own blocks and sheaves. It takes a tap very well for threaded applications too.

The photos I have are actually of the one and only example I have seen of this ladder clip. My clip attaches further down the ladder, facilitating an easy ladder drop, should I need to enter the boat from the water (MOB). Todd Frye
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d804b3127cce89adbfd195d90000001610" border=0><img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d804b3127cce89adbfda14e20000001610" border=0>

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 06/25/2003 : 16:25:57

Guys -

Great topic, I haven't single handed yet, but hope to in the near future. Harvey, my co-owner does it with some degree of frequency. I forwarded this thread to him.

It just goes to show you that no matter what you level of competancy is in life or on this board(master marine consultant)there is still plenty to learn.

Thanks for the insight

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Ellis Bloomfield
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
85 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2003 : 01:16:59

Thought I rembered reading someplace that you had to singlehand over 37 hours to make Admiral.

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.