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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Trailer braking system

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Tom Coleman
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/19/2003 : 00:14:49

I just had my 2 year old, standard issue (C250 wb) trailer in the shop to have the non-functioning brakes checked out. After a new master cylinder, etc. things seem to be back to normal. But after reading Arlyn's comments about using synthetic brake fluid rather than standard (water absorbing) fluid, I called the mechanic and asked what he had put in the system. He told me that he used standard fluid because he did not know if the rubber components of my system would stand up to synthetic fluid. Any comments or help? Thanks in advance.

Tom Coleman
"Kalya"
C250 wb #568
Salt Lake City

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2003 : 07:36:39

My understanding is that the two cannot be mixed... to use synthetic, the system needs purged of the standard. So, a change really needs to happen when redoing the system.

I have not heard any comments about the synthetic having any problems with rubber components. I have one more year now on synthetic than I got with regular and the system remains working well.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2003 : 08:55:40

Tom,

I've switched several vehicles over from DOT3 (water absorbing) brake fluid to silicon brake fluid, including hydraulic clutches. I've never encountered a materials compatibility problem. As Arlyn says, the system must be so thoroughly flushed, that complete dissassembly is about the only way to do it. I'm sorry that your mechanic didn't take care of it while he had the system apart.

-- Leon Sisson

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2003 : 12:29:58

Did you submerge the master cylinder? I think that water gets in through the cap vent. Some ramps are so shallow you have no choice. If you don't switch out to synthetic, at least flush the system once a year. It's not hard to do, and takes less than an hour. If you're interested I'll give you the play by play.

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake:
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/Forumshots/chesapeake.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Oscar on 06/19/2003 12:33:21

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HGraham
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2003 : 15:33:51

Oscar; I DO submerge my coupler every launch and retrieval. Therefore I would be very interested in your step by step.

Thanks, Harry

Ovation C250WB#543

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2003 : 16:59:57

Some actuators are designed in a way that even rain enters the reservoir. When my coupler was bad after only three years... I called Champion to obtain a rebuild kit.

There was no kit available for the brand that Trailright had installed. Also, Champion didn't reccomend replacement with that brand for that reason and one more, the fill cap was screwed into the flat top of the housing. A Demco was suggested as a replacement, it had both a rebuild kit available and the cap sat on a raised boss to resist rain water infiltration.

It has been commented before, that some trailer sailors duct tape around the cap and actuator to keep rain off.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2003 : 21:19:59

Arlyn, tomorrow I'm going to take a closeup of the cap to get your read on what I have.

Harry,

Get yourself two feet of rubber hose, about 1/8 ID (inner diameter) a glass jar, a container of the same brake fluid that's now in your system, and a pitcher or measuring cup or something that has a pour spout and holds a cup or four....(I use a decanter, have no other use for it.....<img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>)

The object of this operation is to apply the brakes, with the individual ventnippel open, one at a time, so that fluid flows through, without sucking air back in when you release the brakes. We're doing this with the trailer disconnected from the vehicle.

So, open the brake nippel on the brake furthest from the main cylinder (about half a turn should be enough) stick one end of the hose on it, pour some brake fluid in the glass jar, stick the other end of the hose in it (below fluid level).

Now take the cap off your master cylinder and top off the resevoir. Apply the brakes fully, and observe fluid going into the glass jarr. It should not take too much force, but still, its easier if you stick the ball with the foot of 2x2 hitch insert on the hitch as a lever.

Release the brakes fully, (the hose under fluid will now prevent air being sucked into the system) and top of the resevoir with the decanter. DO NOT LET THE RESEVOIR GET EMPTY AND SUCK AIR......on my hitch that only takes two full applications, and then you'll be doing this for a long time, because the air will have to all come out the other end......

Repeat the process untill you feel that the entire fluid in the resevoir/line and brake cylinder has been replaced.....how many times? Its a guess...... I do ten......(Arlyn?)

Observe the fluid in the glass jar and look for dirt particles (indication of rusting) or water.......when in doubt keep going untill all is clear.

Now close the nippel, and repeat the process on the next furthest brake untill all are done.....you have two or four? Some states require four.....Realize that on the subsequent brakes you really only need to do from the main line to that brake....the main line was done with the first brake.

Finally, I recommend that you put a jack under each wheel, and turn the wheel, make sure nothing's dragging or grinding, then have an assistant apply the brakes and observe that they work.

While you're in this stage you can also give your bearings some TLC...but that's another story altogether. And, don't forget to check all your lights. Mine are sealed units.....keeps the water IN so they rot out regularly <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>.....

Finally, PA (where I live) has inspection laws extending to trailers. Forces us to keep up with things.....If your state doesn't, it'd still a good idea to give the thing a once over on a regular basis.

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake:
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/Forumshots/chesapeake.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

HGraham
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2003 : 09:04:01

Oscar; Thanks for the info. Would it be feasible to replace the fluid with synthetic whilst doing the flushing? It seems that 10 times should be enough to get all the old stuff out so that there would be no intermixing. And what is the effect if the two types of fluid do get mixed together?

Harry

Ovation C250WB#543

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2003 : 09:24:02

Don't know what mixing will do, but I frequently read not to do it.....

As far as replacing it using the above method, I believe it should work, and evacuate all the old fluid, but I'm open to suggestions/corrections regarding that statement.

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake:
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/Forumshots/chesapeake.jpg" border=0>

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2003 : 10:24:48

You can get hand pump 'pressure flushing' adapters too... as I recall, they cost $30 or so. Uses air pressure to purge all the fluid from the braking system in a few seconds. Or you can undo the lines at the master cylinder and use an air compressor to blow 'em out.

Being a cheapskate, I usually still do it the old fashioned way.

IMHO... With either type, if you're around water, you should renew your brake fluid every winter. :>)

Most folks don't know that the brake fluid in your car should be changed every couple years for the same reasons.. keeps water and corrosion out of the system. If you do that, wheel cylinders last nearly the life of the car. Instead we do full brake jobs and replace our wheel cylinders when they fail.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2003 : 13:59:46

The old saying is...its worth a try. I would choose the blow the lines out method primarily because the synthetic fluid is expensive. A pint runs 6-8 bucks.

Disconnect at the actuator... put a piece of hose on the line, open the bleeders and stick an air nozzle into the hose. Pump the master cylinder dry.

Hook back up and recharge.

Good advice about exchanging fluid yearly.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2003 : 18:04:26

I like the blowout method...learn something new every day here....just have to watch what you splatter when you do this. I seem to recall that brake fluid is very corrosive.

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake:
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/Forumshots/chesapeake.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Tom Coleman
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 06/22/2003 : 23:52:18

Thanks to everyone for their comments. Very helpful. After reviewing the documents that came with the trailer this weekend I saw that Trailrite says to not use synthetic fluid because it is not as effective (or something to that effect). Confusing. Will investigate further. Thanks again to everyone.

Tom Coleman
"Kalya"
C250 wb #568
Salt Lake City

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