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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

whisker pole repair

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/26/2003 : 02:52:13

My regular duty Forespar Adj 6-12 pole doesn't lock any more. I'm not sure if the twist lock repair kits sold at West Marine would work because when trying to set it by twisting, the rubber seal just rotates inside the tube. When I pull the two tubes completely apart, the locking mechanism seems to work fine as it always did.

Is there anywhere I could get parts to make it a "snap" locking system? I only have one jib and the wisker pole always gets set at essentially the same length.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

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MikeM
1st Mate

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72 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2003 : 09:16:54

I had the same problem and friend recommended that I spray the pole with WD-40. It actually works, but don't use too much otherwise it will continue to spin. Emery cloth my also help create a grip for the lock going forward.

Mike M
Marblehead, MA
C25 #1212

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2003 : 10:16:21

What a friend did with his was to drill a couple of holes and now uses a bolt with nut on the end to keep it extended. Kind of crude but it works.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2003 : 10:32:49

Richard - I replaced the locking mechanisms in my 7 x 17 telescoping whisker pole last year with a repair kit direct from Forespar. It contained all the pieces necessary and the pole locks just fine now. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2003 : 17:25:24

Richard,

A big puff of wind destroyed my Forespar Adj 6-12, so I removed the end pieces and fitted them to an adjustable paint roller extension (6'-12') that I got at the builders supply for about $30-35. It is at least as strong as the Forespar, and you can get paint roller extensions that have the type of adjuster that Forespar uses, or a type of adjuster that uses a thumb button to insert a pin into a series of holes along the length of the tube. I like it much better than the Forespar. (And it is multitasking. You can remove the whisker pole end pieces and paint your ceilings with it. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>)

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2003 : 21:09:36

Steve - on which sail do you use the 6 - 12? The 110? Do you have another pole for the genoa? My 155 uses a pole extended to 15' 9", and we just collapse it some for the 110.
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2003 : 22:58:25

As long as this thread is talking whisker poles, I have a question. I have a ADJ 7-18 Forespar whisker pole that I have only used a few times. I have a track on the forward side of the mast and a car with a ring for the mast-end of the pole.

My question: Where do you rig the pole relative to the forward lower shrouds? Inside (between the lower and the upper) , or outside (forward of the lower shroud). Either place seems to to offer a chance for contact with the shroud. Makes me nervous, hence, I don't tend to use it. I sometimes use a jury rigged boat hook instead to keep the jenny from collapsing when going down wind.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 06/26/2003 : 23:50:57

Eric - I fly mine forward of the forward lowers but never allow it to press against that shroud. I race on a very wind shifty lake, and this allows me to move the pole forward as necessary - as the wind moves more towards the beam, you have to "rotate" the whole sail plan to keep the sails closer to 90 degrees to the wind (i.e. you trim the main and ease the pole), or you have to change course to achieve the same.
In steady, non-gusty winds, some racers (especially the C22's) set the pole between the forward and the upper shrouds - but it makes me nervous!! <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2003 : 01:15:07

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> type of adjuster that uses a thumb button to insert a pin into a series of holes <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Anyone know where one could obtain such a spring/button piece (without getting a whole new pole)?

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2003 : 06:51:40

I just got a Gennie today, has anyone made a 17 foot pole with the paint roller pole for this size sail. Or do you think it is a bad idea. At the Jack London Boat show the Forespar guy told me a pole would be around 6 boat units. Kind of dear for me.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2003 : 09:51:54

Matt,

I might have been mistaken about the length of my paint roller pole. I use it with my 150 and it works great. I'm going sailing today, and I'll measure it and let you know its actual length.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2003 : 11:59:00

Matt, the latest Sailnet catalog (Page 38) has a Forespar 7 - 17 telescoping pole for sale for $315.52. Your Forespar guy was probably quoting you on a 10 - 18 Line Control pole which Sailnet has for $659.95.
I worry a little about using small diameter poles on a genoa. The compression force becomes considerable in a gust (if the wind speed doubles in a gust, the force on the sail quadruples). I've seen a 2 1/2" diam pole on a Hunter 30 snap like a toothpick...<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2003 : 20:39:11

Matt,

I measured my paint roller pole today and it is 6' collapsed and 12' extended. You don't need a 15' or 17' pole for its length, but the extra strength of a bigger pole is nice in strong winds. I usually set my whisker pole between the forward lower stay and the upper stay, and, when set that way, it fully extends my 150.

Derek says he sets his pole forward of the forward lower stay. If you set the pole that way, then you need a longer (15'-17') pole to stretch out the genoa. That explains why he believes dead downwind is slow. If you set the pole as I do, when the wind strikes the surface of the mainsail it is turned, and it pours off the surface of the mainsail and onto the surface of the jib. That adds to the total "weight" of the wind that is striking the jib. Derek says setting the pole as he does "...allows me to move the pole forward as necessary - as the wind moves more towards the beam, you have to "rotate" the whole sail plan to keep the sails closer to 90 degrees to the wind (i.e. you trim the main and ease the pole."

I have set my pole that way, but not often and not recently. When the wind moves towards the beam, I usually drop the pole, gybe the jib and trim for a beam reach. The sails are more efficiently shaped and configured that way than if you ease the pole forward and reach with the mainsail trimmed in and the genoa poled out. When you trim for a beam reach, the sails are working together to form a venturi. When you ease the pole forward and reach with the mainsail trimmed in and the genoa poled out, the sails are working independently of each other, and not capable of generating as much power. In strong wind that's okay, but if the wind is light, you're not getting as much power out of your sails as you could be.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2003 : 03:51:34

Steve,
I'll try it out next race night. I never put the pole between the spreaders like that. With my old 110 the pole was long enough to extend the sail out nicely. I tell you the 150 does a great job of going down wind, I think the 110 would beat it close hauled though. The new sail didn't seem to want to poin as high. Is this the way it is or do I need to adjust the sail a little more for up wind sailing?
I have been in the races at our lake for a few years, but never have been of the competive nature. My wife on the otherhand wants to win. Getting the C25 has been great, she never wanted to go out on the old Santana 21. So far we have been doing fairly well, the last race wasn't quite as good though. The fellow we got the sail from was going over setup with us and we were a minute late for the start. we still passed up a few boats that started well before us.
Thanks,

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 06/28/2003 : 10:02:14

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I tell you the 150 does a great job of going down wind, I think the 110 would beat it close hauled though. The new sail didn't seem to want to poin as high. Is this the way it is or do I need to adjust the sail a little more for up wind sailing? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

You're right Matt. The 110 points a little higher than the 150, but the 150 generates more power when sailing off the wind and in light air. When beating to windward, I trim the 110 as close as possible to the spreader without touching it (about 1"). I trim the 150 to about 8-10" from the spreader. When beating to windward in moderate to strong winds, I leave the winch handle in the winch. When the wind puffs hard, the dacron sailcloth stretches momentarily, and the distance from the spreader to the sail increases. When that happens, I crank the sheet in to maintain the proper distance from the spreader (1" for the 110 and 8-10" for the 150). When the wind puff eases, the sailcloth stops stretching, so I ease the jibsheet to maintain the correct distance between the sail and the spreader. If you don't constantly re-trim the jib in the puffs, to compensate for sailcloth stretch, then the boat will lose its ability to point and it will bear off slightly in the puffs. The reason is that, when the wind puffs and the sailcloth stretches, it momentarily creates a deeper pocket in the sail, which generates more power. If you have too much power in the jib, weather helm increases, and the boat won't point as high.

I used to think my 150 was poorly cut, and disliked it so much that I flew the 110 when everyone else was flying the 150. Then I realized that, if you use the 150 in the right conditions and trim it correctly, it improves the overall performance of the boat. Although you give up a little in pointing ability, you make up for it in speed and power when the wind is light.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 06/29/2003 : 13:53:31

Steve - I should perhaps better elucidate our downwind technique. On Canyon Lake, going downwind it is always a challenge to maintain good sail trim. The wind will swing thru' 20 degrees and then back again. Most of the time it doesn't go far enough to warrant dropping the pole and coming to a beam reach,(which I heartily agree is the fastest point of sail) and before you ever got the pole dropped and the genoa jibed the wind would be back over the corner of the transom. To be able to rapidly change sail trim, the pole is set ahead of the forward lower, and I can "swing" the sail plan back & forth very quickly and keep the boat at maximum power. I am sure that, were we to race where the wind is much steadier, we would find a different technique. However, this method has won us innumerable races and at times kept us ahead of J-22's running chutes...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>
I still firmly believe that running dead downwind is slower than molasses in January. I admit that I do sail a little longer course - but the increased speed more than compensates (just ask my competitors...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>)
As my original mentor once said "there are no automatic transmissions on sailboats"
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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