Association Forum - how rediculous is it to change to a tall rig?

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

how rediculous is it to change to a tall rig?

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

77Gypsy
Captain

Member Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/01/2003 : 03:41:09

is it realistic to change gypsy from a standard rig to a tall rig under $2000.00?

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy
<img src="http://www.websdf.com/logo.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2003 : 03:49:22

would the tall rig make that much of a difference in speed?

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy
<img src="http://www.websdf.com/logo.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

eric.werkowitz
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2003 : 07:11:04

Steve,

Why the need for speed?

I suggest you save your money. The speed improvement is small. Probably most noticeable in light wind. In return you have to deal with a much lower boom. I used to sail my TR all summer with a reef in the main to get enough height under the boom for my bimini. I just had the main recut to take a couple feet off the top so I can deploy all the main and still avoid broiling.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2003 : 10:09:10

I think your $2K tall righ budget will be pretty well shot on a good set of sails alone. Then the mast will be another $800-$1000, and new stays about the same. (with new terminal tackle).

IMHO lots of money for very little gain. If you're interested in better performance, I'd invest in the best set of sails you can
afford for your current rig.

You're flying that gennaker with the tack attached to the clew of your roller furling headsail ????? I've never seen that done before.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2003 : 10:48:52

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

You're flying that gennaker with the tack attached to the clew of your roller furling headsail ????? I've never seen that done before.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

For good reason........ I mentioned this in Steve's other post... This is definitely not where you want to attach a spinaker. The load on the forestay in one location (as opposed to spread out like a jib) is highly undadviseable.

As for the tall rig - Steve, based on some of the mods you've done already, you most likely can afford going to a tall rig. Can you do it for under two grand....probably not. What will it get you? According to the PHRF ratings, about 6 seconds a mile. So you'll be a minute ahead of where you would have been every ten miles all things (other than the rig) being equal.

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2003 : 12:24:44

To change a standard rig to a tall rig, you’d have to replace the mast, all the shrouds and the sails. That would cost way more than $2000, unless you were lucky enough to find all of them used, in good condition and at bargain basement prices. Not likely, but possible. Recently a damaged C-25 and trailer was for sale on Ebay for $1500. The boat had its mast, rigging and sails, but it didn’t say whether it was a standard or tall rig. The trailer alone was worth $1500. Any parts salvaged from the boat would have been freebies (except for the cost of disposing of the remaining hull, which could be considerable, if it had to be landfilled).

The tall rig is considerably faster than the standard rig in light to moderate winds (perhaps a sixteenth or an eighth of a knot on average, which is a lot by sailboat standards), but the standard rig is just as fast in stronger winds. An overpowered tall rig boat is no faster than an overpowered standard rig boat. They both have the same hull.

Some people don’t like the tall rig, especially the low boom, but if you make the appropriate adjustments to it, it’s really not that much different from any other boat. The tall rig appeals more to racers, and most racing boats have deck-sweeping jibs and somewhat lower booms. I like mine very much, but if I hadn’t bought it new that way, I probably wouldn’t change it over.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

Members Avatar

Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2003 : 13:52:50

As I recall, the first reef in a tall rig makes it approximately a standard rig (but with a lower boom and sail). So, when the wind freshens, the tall rig will reef earlier (around 15?) and downsize the headsail, and the boats will be just about equal--assuming the reef flattens the main as effectively as the unreefed standard sail.

I suspect if you want a tall rig, you'd get it for a lot less by selling your standard and buying a tall. To put it another way, you won't get the conversion investment back.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

Steve Shetter
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2003 : 22:29:30

Steve,

Eric mentioned what I consider to be a serious issue... that is the fact that you can't raise the "pop-top" (assuming that you have one) with a tall rig under sail. I followed the advise that I received in the forum and bought a "noodle" and cut it into 4 pieces and placed them under the corners of my pop-top, just to allow some air circulation in the cabin. A problem with doing that, is that it eliminates the ability for me to walk on the top... I must walk around the top to reef the main or work the headsails.

Steve Shetter
"At Last"
#2381

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2003 : 23:45:37

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>...This is definitely not where you want to attach a spinnaker. The load on the forestay in one location (as opposed to spread out like a jib) is highly unadviseable.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

ATN makes a device, the Tacker, that allows the tack of the spinnaker to be fastened to a furled headsail and, according to their website, the device has been favorably reviewed by Practical Sailor.

<img src="http://www.atninc.com/media/p2aux.jpg" border=0>

"We think the TACKER is a terrific way for casual sailors to get more use out of their spinnakers" ... "The inexpensive TACKER allows you to fly a conventional spinnaker without a pole" - Practical Sailor

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

Members Avatar

844 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2003 : 02:33:06

Steve

Just clean the bottom of your boat. It'll go faster, sooner, and less expensively than changing your rig.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2003 : 08:35:09

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
ATN makes a device, the Tacker, that allows the tack of the spinnaker to be fastened to a furled headsail and, according to their website, the device has been favorably reviewed by Practical Sailor.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Don and all -

I stand (although actually sitting) corrected. I would get this item though and not attach my sail to the furled jib.

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

RoofRoof
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2003 : 10:57:48

I purchased my 1979 TR SK just a year ago. The previous owner had traded his standard rig for a tall rig. Supposedly the other guy couldn't get under a bridge with his tall, so they did an even swap. Fortunately for me, the tall rig came with a brand new 'North' racing main sail.

The lower boom is really a problem for us here in Florida. My fair skinned chickie really needs a bimini and we are still racking our brains on how we can fashion one. Keeping a reef in the main seems the only possibility. We could remove the bimini and lose the reef when we sail at night.

I can raise my pop top all the time. That hasn't been a problem.

One nice thing is that the boom is lower, so when I reef, drop the top of the sail, the sail is actually lower than a standard rig would be, so I think the boat heals less.

I dream of racing, but haven't yet....so hopefully the tall rig will help me when that day comes.

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2003 : 11:11:25

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...This is definitely not where you want to attach a spinnaker. The load on the forestay in one location (as opposed to spread out like a jib) is highly unadviseable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ATN makes a device, the Tacker, that allows the tack of the spinnaker to be fastened to a furled headsail and, according to their website, the device has been favorably reviewed by Practical Sailor.

"We think the TACKER is a terrific way for casual sailors to get more use out of their spinnakers" ... "The inexpensive TACKER allows you to fly a conventional spinnaker without a pole" - Practical Sailor
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

The difference I see, the picture of Gypsy does not have a tack line. I think if you have both like the picture Don shared the tacker devise is very effective. Most of the spinnaker’s pressure is on the tack line.

Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3da35b3127cce961d8ff3fd0b0000001010" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495
2003 National Champion

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2003 : 14:01:58

Alan and Steve, do you want to trade?

I suspect Alan wants to keep his tall rig, if the bridges cause a problem and a few less helps, may a std rig would be benificial.

just a crazy thought.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

lex227
Deckhand

Members Avatar

4 Posts

Response Posted - 07/31/2003 : 11:27:58

The biggest advantage to a tall rig is that you provide protection for all of the standard rigs around you in the Marina. I had a slip next to a tall rig and felt very secure about lightning strikes during thunder storms.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.