Association Forum - Lowering Swing Keel

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Lowering Swing Keel

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

jncarlin
1st Mate

Member Avatar

USA
45 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/03/2003 : 22:56:51

This is for all you swingers out there -

Before I splashed the boat, I changed the keel cable, turning ball, hose, etc (actually, truth be told, I had my marina do it - since I wanted experts do it the first time - for me, that is.........but I supervised!!!!).

The cable is nicely wrapped around the winch - but how do I judge how much to crank the winch to get the keel all the way down without overdoing it - I want to maintain the cable tension around the winch? Is there a rule of thumb regarding the number of revolutions to crank? Or is there another way of doing it?

Joe Carlin

Edited by - jncarlin on 07/03/2003 23:15:06

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2003 : 00:11:42

Joe,

On my 1979 Catalina 25, it's about 30 turns of the crank from full up to full down. A wild guess would be that the keel moves about an inch vertically per turn of the crank. (About now the engineering math majors are reaching for their state of the art scientific calulators to correct me.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>) When my keel stops in the down position, there is a sharply defined change in the feel of the crank -- it goes limp. When my keel is in the full down position, I leave less than one crank turn of slack in the cable, just enough slack to stop it from humming, but not enough to let the cable tangle on the winch drum.

I also designed and built a swing keel position indicator which works quite well. However, I don't expect many owners to follow me down that path, as it involved removing and modifying the keel, and adding a new "to-hull".

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

RoofRoof
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2003 : 13:13:09

Please tell me more about your keel position indicator. I want one.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2003 : 02:36:08

RoofRoof,<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Please tell me more about your keel position indicator.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>See [url="http://home.mpinet.net/~sissonl/boating/C25_proj/C25_keel.htm#SK_pos_ind"]link[/url].

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

frich
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
418 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2003 : 08:37:17

Fulton suggests leaving (3) turns of cable left on the drum, in the full down.

Frank R
84 C25 SK

Edited by - on

cch
Navigator

Members Avatar

202 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2003 : 14:46:18

We have found 30 revolutions of the crank to be quite accurate from all the way up to all the way down. Typically we leave a slight tension on the cable when the keel is down to help eliminate the "hum" and keep the cable neat on the drum.

Chris Hunsicker
Moonglade Panama City FL

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2003 : 07:09:30

I crank the keel down until, by feel, it's obvious that there's no more weight on the cable. That's about 31 - 32 cranks on my new winch. I like the cable slack: I find the hum irritating, and I don't entirely buy the "taught cable as protection against keel trunk damage" argument. I think a keel position indicator is superfulous: since the keel should be either full up or full down, and the winch will tell you when it's in either position, why bother? If you run aground, you winch up just enough to get off, and then put it down again.

Brooke

Edited by - brooke willson on 07/07/2003 07:10:18

Edited by - brooke willson on 07/07/2003 07:10:57

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2003 : 09:38:23

I don't entirely buy the "taught cable as protection against keel trunk damage" argument. - Brooke

'Just curious ... why not?

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2003 : 09:44:39

Brooke,<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I think a keel position indicator is superfulous: since the keel should be either full up or full down, ... <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Depends on where you sail. Here in the Banana River, much of the water is too shallow to keep the swing keel down 100% of the time. It's not just a matter of, "Well then, stay out of the shallow water, dummy!" There are places where I have to cross shallow water to get where I'm going. Having the swing keel position indicator allows me to set the keel depth in anticipation of crossing the shoals (many of which I have memorized by now).

Otherwise yeah, "If you run aground, you winch up just enough to get off, and then put it down again." Around here, a swing keel is the way to go for just that reason.

On my recent trip to the Bahamas, a notoriously shoal cruising ground, and totally unfamiliar to me, I only needed to raise the keel maybe 1% as often as I do here in the good old Banana River. A standard local joke is that the Banana River is the safest place in the world to boat, because if anything goes wrong you can just walk back home.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Steve Shetter
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2003 : 21:41:48

Unless I am "missing the boat" it seems to mne that there are two different arguments for the tension on the keel cable. Leon says loose and Chris says tight. I currently have a vibration (hum?) and need to know which tension will reduce or eliminate it. Can you help me out with the answer then the reasonong for that answer?

Thanks,

Steve Shetter
"At Last"
#2381

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2003 : 22:13:14

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I currently have a vibration (hum?) and need to know which tension will reduce or eliminate it. Can you help me out with the answer then the reasonong for that answer? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

On my old swinger, I sailed with the cable loose to eliminate the cable hum. The cable acts like a guitar string and, when taught while underway, vibrates as if it were being strummed. By easing the tension on the cable you will lessen it's ability to vibrate.

The next time you are out on the water and the cable starts to hum try either cranking your keel up or down slightly to find the spot where the humming is reduced or to find a pitch that is more to your liking.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

jncarlin
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2003 : 23:22:32

I took my boat out of the marina where is was splashed this weekend. The keel was down, and it was low tide. There is a narrow channel, and all was going well till all of a sudden, the boat stopped moving! I looked at my outboard, and feared that I lost the prop. Then a guy in a powerboat passed me, and yelled to me "you know, there is only about 5 foot of water here". I had run aground <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> - and hadn't even realized it (I guess there is a first time for everything!!) Jumped into the cabin, turned the winch handle a few times........and away I went.

Lesson to be learned - read the charts (although the marina guys had assured me that there was enough water in the channel). And best of all, despite all the negatives and problems I have heard about the swing keel - it does have its advantages <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Joe Carlin

Edited by - jncarlin on 07/07/2003 23:25:23

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2003 : 08:35:26

We sail with the keel wire taut. When our Knot Meter died last year, the hum volume told us how fast we were going (relative to other hums).

As noted above, its about 30 cranks full up to full down. We just go until there is slack in the wire, then crank her back up until there is tension.

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2003 : 09:16:59

Buzz, I don't buy the taut cable as protection argument because: 1.) as the other posts and my experience (more about that in a minute) show, you're more likely to stop when you run aground than hit something, bounce a 1500 pound keel several feet, and have it slam back down violently enough to crack the trunk. Most of the postings on here about trunk damage are from people who have had the cable fail in the up position and had the keel fall all the way. 2.) If the cable is tight, the keel rises on a strike, and then falls, the cable is liable to either stretch and still allow a cushioned slam, or break, thereby preventing the keel from being raised again.

I have a LOT of experience with sailing in thin water. The Eastern Shore of Virginia, where I lived for eight years, has constantly shifting shoals in its creeks (a Shore creek is a tidal river to the rest of the world). I kept the keel up as I motored out to the deep water, then lowered it all the way. If I ran aground, I raised the keel enough to float free, and then, as soon as the water was "permanently" deeper, I lowered it again.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with people who want to put keel depth indicators on their C25s. It's a nifty idea. If I were doing lots of sailing in water that was less than five feet deep (as opposing to passing through that water on my way to sailing grounds), I would not have a C25. I'd have a catamaran or a Sunfish or some thin water boat.

That's why God loves variety: different boats for different folks. Or maybe just different opinions about the same boat <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>. On the cable hum issue, however, there is but one truth: tight means hum, loose means quiet.

Brooke

Edited by - brooke willson on 07/08/2003 09:18:54

Edited by - on

dave holtgrave
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2003 : 09:33:25

brooke
i agree.
if you leave the cable tight you will tear out the steps and winch out when the keel comes down.
if , as you say you have time when aground to crank up the cable until deeper water that's great.
if you hit something that will raise the keel and drop it (tree trunks etc) you are going to loose the steps or trunk anyway.

two bits worth
dave holtgrave
5722 sk/tr
sailing carlyle lake in southern illinois

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.