Association Forum - Buying Advice

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Buying Advice

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Gman
Deckhand

Member Avatar

2 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/07/2003 : 23:57:56

I am beginning to research my next boat, and its gonna be a C25. Right now the Fin keel standard rig is preferred but not sure it is practical because:

1. Likelyhood of finding a FK with a trailer is slim, im guessing.
2. I will need to tow it (Ford Explorer v6 with a 5000lb capacity) twice a year, once to launch, once to retrieve. -about a 1 hour tow time from storage to water. -Not sure if this is an adequate vehicle.
Is the displacement of 4550lbs the same as the boat's weight? What would the trailer weigh.
3. Unsure if the FK can be launched from a ramp without the use of a hoist.

Any thoughts would be appreciated a ton!

Graham in Cincinnati

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2003 : 00:25:31

Generally speaking, the most sought-after model is a late series 88+ C25 Wing-Keel.

Being the 'cadillac' of the line, they carry the highest price tag and are the hardest to find. Next in line for popularity are the swings and then the fins. (Mostly because they are harder to trailer and launch.) As you've observed, many of the fins don't come with trailers.

All of these models will be right at the towing capacity of your Explorer.

Tell us more about your venue... Freshwater? Not expecting big seas, want to travel in shoal draft waters, need an easy ramp launch?

Sounds like a swing keel kind of place.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2003 : 01:38:16

Graham,

The designed displacement of the C25 fin is 4,550lbs, but this is for the basic hull and does not include all the bits and pieces like outboard and mount, stove, head, anchors/rodes, gas tanks, spinnaker pole, sails, furling, running rigging, optional pulpits, bimini, lines, books, tools, galley items, life jackets, boathoak, fenders, coolers, bedding,...and anything else that is shoehorned into every nook and cranny. This additional weight can easily add 10 to 20 percent to the designed displacement.

This additional weight plus the weight of a substantial tandem axle trailer will exceed the towing capacity of your V6 equipped Ford Explorer and it's 5,000lb towing capacity.

Where do you sail?...Lake Erie?

I ask this because if you only need to trailer twice a season and you sail Lake Erie(or a marina on your lake provides winter storage), an option worth considering is marina storage.

My over winter storage costs me $300.00 which includes haulout/bottom wash and splashing the following spring. This is nothing compared to the costs of owning and maintaining both a capable tow vehicle(high initial cost and less than stellar gas mileage) plus a tandem axle trailer with it's costs(license, maintenance, storage, insurance,...etc).

Just something to consider.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 07/08/2003 01:43:41

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2003 : 07:34:15

Grahm;
You could probably find a trailer which has adjustable bunks to fit the c25 FK, I just recently saw a trailer for a Cape Dory 25 for sale I think in New England. Even closer to home for you I saw a trailer for a Pearson 270 at Stoney Brook Lake out by Hillsboro, OH.

I would not tow the rig you are talking about with a Ford Explorer. Don is right about the listed weight that does not include all the extras. I had an Explorer when I bought my boat & moved to a Tahoe quickly. I think most car makers overrate their veh. tow capacity.

If you are planning on sailing on Brookville Lake, IN. IDNR has a 5 ton j-hoist that will put your boat on/off the trailer for $30.00/pop.

Strictly Sail in Blue Ash has a 1995 C250WB in their lot right now.

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d831b3127cce891ba4a976e00000001010" border=0>On the water
C250 WB Sea Major #628

Edited by - RAY SEITZ on 07/08/2003 07:36:14

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2003 : 11:27:10

Most of the C-25s in the Cincinnati area, of every keel configuration, were sold with trailers.

I have a C-25 FK boat with a roller-bunk trailer without a tongue extension, and have found that it can be ramp launched and retrieved at Brookville Lake and elsewhere (1) if the water at the ramp is deep enough, and (2) if you can get the trailer deep enough, without launching the tow vehicle. The latter is usually easy if you have a 4WD tow vehicle, but it isn't easy if you have a 2WD, although it can be done. Launching and retrieving is also much easier if you have a trailer tongue extension. I keep my boat at Brookville Lake, about an hour from Cincinnati, and usually use the hoist, because it's inexpensive and less hassle, and my tow vehicle is a 2WD Chev. pickup truck with a 350 V-8 engine.

The 6 cyl. Explorer might possibly be enough to pull the boat if you launch and retrieve by hoist (I doubt that it would pull the boat and trailer up the launch ramp), and if you only tow it slowly for a few relatively hill-less miles to a nearby storage lot. Otherwise, no way. It's no fun to pull a big boat halfway up a long, steep hill, and find that the tow vehicle can't make it all the way to the top. Then you have to back all the way down, turn around, and find a way around the steep hill. Most inland lakes are in hilly country, and I don't recommend even trying to get by with the Explorer.

I don't agree with Clambeach's order of popularity of the various types of keels, although it might be true in his locale. It all depends on where and how you plan to use the boat. The fin keel is the best all around performer. The swing will point a little higher, and the wing won't point quite as high. The fin and the wing are more robust, and require less maintenance than the swing keel. If your sailing venue is mostly deep water, and good performance is especially important to you, and ease of launching and retrieving is not an issue (either because you have access to a hoist, or you have the right tow vehicle and trailer, or because you don't plan to trailer the boat often), then the fin keel will be good for you. If you will sail in shallower water, or plan to trailer the boat often, then the wing or swing keel will be a better choice.

Brookville Lake is a great place for a C-25 with any type of keel. Except in a few areas, the water is deep right up to the shore. The local sailing club is very active. The State has provided sailboat-only docks, launch ramps and a hoist. There are a lot of C-25s on the lake, and, for some reason, the lake doesn't attract the power boat idiots that inhabit other lakes in the Cincinnati area. On average we have a more considerate class of power boaters.

The enforcement officers at Brookville Lake treat us like grownups. They don't hassle us with petty, nit-picky things, but they are quick and firm in dealing with anyone who bothers or endangers others. In years past, when I sailed on some Ohio inland lakes, Ohio's rules and their enforcement officers were exactly the opposite.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

Gman
Deckhand

Members Avatar

2 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2003 : 13:00:02

wow! Thanks for all the great input. I'll consider all of it. Someone asked for additional info so here it is.

I currently sail on Brookville lake in Indiana -a small inland lake on a 1984 Hunter 20, which is proving to small for my needs...expanding family, entertaining, etc.
I was attracted to the fin keel say 1978-83 because of several reasons.

1. generally they seem to be the most affordable of the three models.
2. I don't really have a good track record with underwater moving parts...I.E. swing keel mechanisms.
3. Not that I would really notice the difference, but a fin keel seems like it would be a more solid performer.

I don't plan to trailer it to other lakes, as the hastle rigging and launching for only a week a year seems a bit excessive.

One problem is that Strictly Sail our only local sail shop(one of you mentioned it) charges $525 to launch, $525 to retrieve, and $300 a year in storage. For $1350 per year, it would seem that in a couple of years I would have shelled out the same amount of $$ to have bought a swinger with a trailer, borrowed a V8 vehicle twice a year for launch and retrieval, and stored it at my house. Which ever one of you quoted $300, that's a deal I wish I had!

From these discussions, it also sounds like if I really wanted to pick up a fin keel on a cradle, it should be somewhere in the Cincinnati market, otherwise I would be paying Strictly Sail to go and fetch it which I would immagine could be $$$.

Your thoughts if any.

Thanks again,
Graham in Cincinnati

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2003 : 13:49:28

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>On average we have a more considerate class of power boaters.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Oxymoron Steve?....

Graham -

Does that price include a dock? $525.00 to launch, $525 to retrieve? That sounds absolutely ludicrous. Even before we were at the Yacht club, it was $400 bucks for outdoor winter storage, including 1 in and 1 out.

Glad I'm not down there in the Queen city anymore...

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2003 : 15:53:46

i may sell gypsy, fin keel, all new halyads, chainplates, spreader brackets, batterines, a lot of upgrades. i think the C27 is calling me.

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy
<img src="http://www.websdf.com/logo.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

jsummerfield
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2003 : 19:59:05

Steve,

Aren't all boats are for sale? I think that the issue is just a meeting of the right price, time and place for each party. Houston may be a bit far for Graham.

Graham,
The Explorer is just fine for a tent-camper. Rent a suburban to move the boat. In a perfect world you might be able to rent a trailer for the move. You would have to deal with offloading at the hard storage yard - and location and renting again for the reverse trip.

John
3973 FK/SR

Edited by - on

jsummerfield
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2003 : 20:00:18

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/08/2003 : 22:28:36

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> One problem is that Strictly Sail our only local sail shop(one of you mentioned it) charges $525 to launch, $525 to retrieve, and $300 a year in storage.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Yikes!...Do they wear masks when they do the heist...er, I mean...hoist?

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2003 : 00:47:19

houston isn't too bad, gypsy came here from wisoconsin on a truck. just cost me $500.00

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy
<img src="http://www.websdf.com/logo.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

jwilliams
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2003 : 18:01:50

Hey Steve,

Are you serious about moving up (?) to a C27?

I have looked at several since I got Hey Jude. For my modest bucks, I would find a needy C30 instead. The difference is huge between a 27 and a 30. The difference between our 25's and the 27 is modest.
IMNSHO!

Whenever I lust after one of the 30's that are available near me, Kirsten reminds me of the Length-to-Frequency-of-Use Formula, i.e. frequency of use is inversely proportional to the length of the boat. I make myself content with getting out twice a week.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2003 : 02:42:18

i think i am convinced on moving to the C27. it wouldn'ty be too soon though, hopefully in a couple of years and ONLY if i can find a tall rig, fin keel, with an outboard. i know the difference isn't much in space or preformance but feel the extra weight may be a bit more compfortable in heavier seas and winds.

1. have ruled out a 30 completely for a few reasons:
i must have anoutboard (i like he fact that you can just switch it out when it dies)

2. i have a REDICULOUS ANXIETY about docking, i think a 30 would give me a heart atack every time i had to take her out or bring her back in. my docking issue has caused me not to sail on many occasions. I am getting better though.

3. it seems the costs jump less from the "25 to 27" than the "27 to 30" i don't mean slip fees though, my docking anxiety has caused me to keep gypsy in a 30' slip. i mean sails, rigging, bottom work etc.

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy
<img src="http://www.websdf.com/logo.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2003 : 05:53:33

Steve:

The cure to docking anxiety and most of the other questions you have posted is not two more feet of boat, unless you want to be one of the legion of sailors who bring their friends to their floating mini-condo for the weekend to drink beer and talk yachty without ever leaving the slip (like most of the boat owners at my marina). The cure is practice, practice, practice. Throw away the West Marine catalog, turn off the @#$%& computer, and go sail the boat.

In fact, I would suggest that perhaps what you need is a smaller boat in which you can learn the essence of boat handling and sailing. You might want to read the excellent book, First You Have to Row a Little Boat.

The marinas are full of boats that never leave the slip because their owners had two foot disease, and kept moving up incrementally in boat size until the boat was beyond them. It's a nautical axiom that the amount a boat actually gets away from the dock is inversely proportional to the size of the boat. My C25 is one of the smaller boats in the marina, and the dockmaster says it is used as much or more than any boat there -- and I pretty much can only sail on Fridays.

Go sail your boat.

Brooke

Edited by - on

gerdo
Navigator

Members Avatar

107 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2003 : 10:58:07

I will be putting my 1982 swing keel , standard rig, tradional interior on the market come late fall. Many upgrades, keel maintenace this spring included new winch, cable, keel casting pin, total strip of keel and redo, new bottom down to gel coat with five coats barrier and two coats anti foul ablative, honda 8hp rebuilt this winter, the list goes on. will probably price at $6500 including slip trhough April 04.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2003 : 14:42:56

I think there is very little reason to spend a lot of money (it costs $ to sell and buy a boat) and move up to a Catalina 27. The interior is basically the same size (or even smaller). The boat handles the same. Same speed. The outboard is in a well (most have inboards). There is no pop-top. Can not trailer. More expensive to slip, paint and maintain for little gain in utility.

There is a lot of reason to move up to a 30, and many Catalina 25 owners have done so (except Catalina 30s cost around $25K compared to $6K for a 25).

Docking anxeity is something we all suffer and the only treatment is practice, going slow, and learning to use spring lines. Also get on the waiting list to move to a nice upwind slip with easy access.

In 2 years you'll be so good at maneuvering your 25 you'll be ready to handle a 30 as long as you take the boat out every chance you get!

I've moved down to the Catalina 25 from a 20,000 lb 40 foot powerboat so I have a lot to learn about this little craft (especially backing), but it is nice to be able to move really slowly, track straight in a crosswind, and move (or stop) the boat by hand.

<img src="http://www.indiscipline.org/cat25/pictures/icon.jpg" border=0>Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.