Association Forum - GPS Question

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

GPS Question

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Doug
Captain

Member Avatar

USA
457 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/09/2003 : 01:17:52

Looking for some input on the Garmin eTrex Legend and the Garmin GPSMAP 76. Anyone use one of these models? I'd like a cheap GPS with enough mapping to give a quick graphic of the boat location.

Doug - #1913 Noeta

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2003 : 02:17:58

I can't speak for either the Legend or GPSMAP 76 because I have a Mariner, but I will say that a GPS unit has to be considered essential equipment to have on a boat.

Just today I got caught in some serious sh*t(winds 30-40, fog vapor, heavy sideways rain, waves,...etc) and visiblity was reduced to about 25ft off the bow. Before the storm hit and when I could still see land, I took a compass bearing to my destination, but I could see in the distance that visibility was soon going to be zilch. Seeing this, I fired up the GPS, selected my waypoint and for about 30 minutes I was barepole motoring on instruments only as I made my way to a safe harbor.

With the winds, waves, and current pushing me all over the place and visibilty near zero, a compass bearing alone would not have been good enough to get me back to port, but the GPS worked its magic and got me home.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2003 : 07:43:49

While not intimate with either, I'm thinking that the Etrex is not made for marine environment... Between the two, I'd lean towards the GPSMAP 76 for that reason.

However, you said you were looking for inexpensive (cheap) but wanted graphing of your boat location. If cruising, then a charting gps may be in order... but for sailing from the local harbor... there is an alternative to a charting gps that works quite well.

Here's how. With an inexpensive gps, motor the coast line hugging the minimum countour depth felt comfortable with. Every five minutes or so...set a waypoint. Most newer units alow setting various waypoint symbols...choose a very simple small symbol for these. Now, set waypoints for the harbor channel markers, day bouys, etc. and choose appropriate symbols for those.

The result is a simple but very effective chart of the local harbor.

The waypoints can also be set on a track... or can be done on charting software and then loaded to the gps...

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

RoofRoof
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2003 : 10:09:17

Pay up and get something good. I have the Garmin 176C. Not just a GPS, but also a Chartplotter. It gives you contours of the ocean floor, (or lakes, waterways, etc.). This has saved my butt many times. Also, when the weather gets bad, it will guide you between the markers too. This is the best safety device you can get.

Also, you can wire it to an autopilot and the new VHF radios with selective call capability. If something really wrong happens, it will send your exact position. MOB (man overboard) function when you fall in the drink could save your life. Just do it! You'll be happy you did.

Edited by - on

Kirk McKay
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
111 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2003 : 12:26:59

I have a Legend that I bought as a toy for Backpacking. It's also been used to drive around Italy. I bought it prior to ever thinking about owing a boat. That being said, I love it on the boat! Face it, our boats aren't that big and I apreciate the hand-heldability of my legend. It's simple to put in a waypoint while sailing or in the car...whatever. You can customize the screens for the info you want and it even has the Marine POI's already on the map. You can also update them as well as download other maps not included in the basemap. I used it on our Bareboat trip in the BVI's this past January and it was great. I know of no reason that it would be considered not for the marine environment?

You might want to check out this site:
http://gpsinformation.net/

Kirk

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2003 : 12:57:40

Kirk,

Those handhelds specifically made for the marine environment are water proof and will float... My base mounted gps designed for marine environment has endured many sailing days in the rain.

No gps would by function not be an enhancement to boat use.

If the Etrex is water proof, I stand corrected... my son has an Etrex albeit a few years old and said it wasn't water proof... the basis for my offering.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2003 : 13:35:16

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>eTrex...I know of no reason that it would be considered not for the marine environment?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I agree that some of the features on it were not necessarily "designed" for boating use. However, I also think it works fine because it performs ably the principal function of a gps -- determining your position on the earth at a particular point in time.

My eTrex Mariner gets splashed pretty good sometimes and seems to be able to take it (knock, knock), but I certainly wouldn't want to test its immersion properties. I like its price, size, weight, portability, ease of power supply (2 AA's) and WAAS feature.

I prefer big paper maps for navigation, and thus didn't really value the mapping function enough to spring more for the pricier model. But if I did, I think I would prefer a fixed mount gps with the improved clarity and detail that its larger screen provides.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

Edited by - on

mdh347
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
16 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2003 : 14:40:57

I had the legend, which I enjoyed but lost. Then I got the boat and decided I needed (wanted) a GPS. I got the GPSMAP 76. The screen is bigger and it floats and is waterproof. While the resolution is the same for both the larger and squarer screen on the GPSMAP 76 works better on the boat for seeing what's around and corresponding to a chart. Also, while the software is similar, the set of buttons is different and I find the GPSMAP 76 much easier to use. Not enough difference to replace the legend if I still had it, but I would recommend the GPSMAP 76. Note that prices vary widely, from $200-$350. Also there is a GPS 76, GPSMAP 76, and GPSMAP 76S, just for confusion. We're talking about the GPSMAP 76. Also, with the added software, you can increase the price by several hundred dollars. So far I haven't seen the need.

Mort Hoffman

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2003 : 15:17:57

I have eTrex Legend, and think its an excellant tool for my purposes. In addition one of the kids gave me Garmin's software for Christmas which allows me to interface the Legend with my lap top. I can plot courses on the lap top, and upload them to Legend. Very handy for not only navigating around our lake, but also for plotting a race. One feature I especially like is the degrees needed to turn in order to reach the waypoint. Especially valuable for figuring favored tack, and when on the layline. This can be presented on the Legend, or on the lap top.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Kirk McKay
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
111 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2003 : 16:16:20

I guess I sing the Legends praises since I can use it for things other than just sailing. Someday I hope to have a larger boat, and I wouldn't expect that the Legend would be what I would be using on that boat...does that make sense? For this boat and my learning to sail, I think it's great. I don't need a big display as I always have charts handy (and the Chesapeake isn't that big, I can usually see landmarks and such.)

Here's what Garmin says about the Legend(I assume that if mine gets dunked while sailing, I probably never see it again):

Garmin reports: "Our specifications for eTrex are that it is waterproof per IEC529-IPX7. IEC is a European specification published by the International Electrotechnical Commission. It is very similar to the Japanese Industry Standard JIS-8. IEC529 gives an excellent breakdown of the relative degrees of protection against water ingress. (IEC529 specification can be found HERE.) (A layman's breakdown of IEC529 can be found HERE.) By the way, our products are more waterproof than virtually everyone else's. We even test 100% of them in our factory. It costs a lot more, but we do it anyway to be sure what we ship meets IPX7. We understand and acknowledge that the marine environment can be very harsh. Even the brass contacts with nickel plating and gold over that will eventually corrode if left exposed to sea water long enough. That's the best contact material available, and we use it on all our external power contacts. All other marine electronic products in the $100-$500 class that we are aware of have this weakness. IEC529 specifies that the immersion test is to be done in fresh water, probably for this reason. The harsh environment does occasionally cause failures and we continually work on improvements to existing products while introducing new ones."

"The classification of IPX7 is for temporary (i.e. accidental) immersion in water. It is not for continuous underwater use. If the end user is looking for something that can be used underwater continuously, they need to find something rated IPX8 or JIS8. However, we are not aware of any GPS or fish finder that is rated for IPX8 in any price category. You will see in the attached sections of IEC529, that "The manufacturer of the equipment should be consulted to determine the degrees of protection available and the parts of equipment to which the stated degree of protection applies." We recently did start to add to our packaging a note concerning the extended waterproofness of our battery compartments as the seal is rubber and over time and wear and tear, will not be able to maintain as good of a seal as when new. We have a vested interest in presenting truthful, correct information to all of our current and potential customers." (End of Garmin statement.)

Kirk

Edited by - on

jsummerfield
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2003 : 16:47:23

Check out www.smallboatgps.com

Recommendations – only consider with map included. For Garmin this eliminates the GPS 76 and includes the GPSMAP 76, 76S, 176, eTrex Legend and eTrex Vista.

The eTrex lack audible alarms like anchor, arrival, off course and lacks tide prediction. The Vista has the most storage memory for charts and data.

Most share the same map compatibility except that the 176 includes Blue Charts. The GPSMAP 76 has more tracking points than the 176.

The Legend has longest battery life at 18 hours, followed by GPSMAP 76 at 16, Vista at 12 and 176 is 4-16.

Pixels GPSMAP76 240x180, 176 240x320, eTrex Legend and Vista 288x160.

All of these are waterproof to IPX 7.

Legend is lowest cost, Vista and GPSMAP 76 next, 176 next with 176 color highest. I did not mention the GPSMAP 76S that is in the 176 price range. The 76S adds a few features and more memory. For my own research I quit looking at the 76S tending to prefer the 176 at that price. However, I am also interested in the features pertinent to flying. The Vista has a few aviation features. I find the GPSMAP 76 to be very desirable if moving from boat to plane and the 176 Color my preference to stay on the boat.

edited
John

Edited by - jsummerfield on 07/09/2003 20:20:44

Edited by - on

RoofRoof
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2003 : 16:29:06

Jsummerfield: You fly too? Me too. If you know the Garmin 176 and 176C....did you know that there is an identical (nearly) model for flying?

It only has a black and white screen, but has many aviation features. It could also be used in the car or on the water. I've considered it, but I really like the color screen for depth contours in the boat.

The aviation model has HSI and even artificial horizon. Pretty amazing.

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

Members Avatar

291 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2003 : 18:14:04

Doug,

Have to throw another "pro eTrex" log on the fire. I have the Mariner model with the 'Blue Charts' CD. Absolutely love it! I use it for the boat, biking and hiking. Being able to interface with my laptop is great. I can build a route on my laptop via the Blue Charts, download it to the Garmin and then sail it (at least try) to within 15 ft accuracy. Not bad for a total investment of less than $400 dollars. Works great the other way, too. I can ride a 20 mile route through the woods on my bike with it 'auto tracking,' download it to my laptop and have an exact route and ride information stored for later. IF it gets wet to the point of being submerged for more than a few seconds, I've got bigger problems to worry about than the GPS!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Bren Peterson
C250WB, #642, "Ruah"
San Antonio, TX

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2003 : 10:27:18

Done deal then. I ordered the eTrex Legend. If you're shopping, Amazon had them for $149. Everyone else I checked, from boater's Worl to Walmart wanted at least $200. Now I need to get the CDs (Blue Chart).

Doug - #1913 Noeta

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

Members Avatar

Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2003 : 12:55:29

This is great stuff! My G-48 is feeling a little old and crude... Every year they get more fantastic! I'll say this: The $2000 units built into the dashes of new cars are a real waste--you can't use them in any other vehicle, car or boat; you can't take them into the house to experiment; and you can get a new portable with color and all of the functions, right down to voice directions ("Turn left at the next intersection") for a fraction of that. This technology is moving fast!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2003 : 13:26:42

How about a G-45?

Here is an interesting story however...

In the Ham radio community many years ago, progress brought forth the synthesized radio. It was a wonder to behold... no more days of buying crystals for the local repeaters and being stuck to those frequencies...

A lot of Hams traded their Kenwood 7400's and other simple models for the new and improved rigs. What they shortly discovered was, that the ability to turn the knob blindly three clicks to the right for the repeater in Osh Gosh... wasn't so easy any more. First, the friggin button has to be found among a dozen others...then the result has to be seen on a display... all diverting attention from the road.

Sears & Roebucks when they started selling new washers and dryers with buttons instead of Knobs... had a steady stream of ladies crying "I want my old machine back!"

The black panel sterio, VCR and home entertainment stuff looks great... but is one pain in the arse to use.

My mother in law's micro went out... she went down and bought a new one... could never figure out how to use it. Looking at the old, discovered a high voltage capacitor blown...With the knob back... she was happy again, she gave the new fangled button thing away.

While most of these things are no big deal for the young and quick witted... they become a pain when senses start dulling.

I liked K-nobs...they were simple!

So, sometimes its progress and sometimes its not.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

jsummerfield
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2003 : 14:07:01

With the old tube type rigs the hams spend a time waiting for the tubes to warm and tuned the finals for every frequency change. Radio shack photographs showed an array of large receivers, transmitters, with antenna selectors, tuners, meters and rotors. Several different sets were required to work both HF and VHF.

Today you can now buy ham gear that transmits HF, perhaps including the marine frequencies and most ham VHF and UHF frequencies. This is all smaller than a shoebox that can be operated mobile in a car or boat, no warmup or tuning. However, I do not have such a box.

John
3973
N5PWJ

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

Members Avatar

Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2003 : 15:42:53

Arlyn: My mother was totally spooked by microwave ovens... She could not deal with heating something up without applying any heat to it--it was unnatural to her. She finally got one, used it to soften butter, and then she died. Maybe she was right... <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

My dad was against home computers--was going to be the last person in the world without one... Then, after Mom died, I got him an "i-Opener" internet appliance, telling him it wasn't a computer. He got hooked on e-mail--forwarding jokes and things among his friends and communicating with his family. It succeeded because there was no MS Windows, no Outlook, no hard disk, nothing to understand except the keyboard and the little pointing device. Simpler is better!

My Garmin 48 is, I would say, at the limits of functionality for its user interface. It is not what I would call intuitive... I think the new ones are better, mostly because their displays are capable of presenting the options better. I'm a little annoyed when I have to pull the quick-reference out while sailing--I guess I should study it a little harder in the family room. Some of the touch-screen car units are showing the way toward a true "GPS appliance".

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2003 : 17:18:21

John,

Wow... There was magic in the glow of those old tubes... I was about thirteen when after a sand lot baseball game one saturday afternoon a friend and I stopped by his house to dispose of gloves and such to head for the swimmin hole to cool off. His dad was tinkering in the garage. On a shelf sat an old Hallicrafters HF receiver..."Wow", I exclaimed... I'd sent off for an Allied Catalog long before and wore it out wishing.

"Its for sale," he said. "How much?" "Fifteen".

A couple of months later, after the annual potato harvest of the farmer down the road, I had earned enough to have it... For the youngsters among us, wages for picking up potatoes was two bits n hour... we worked ten hours and made 2.50 a day. So, it took me six long hard days to pay for that old radio...

Something about the glow of those old tubes through a perforated ventilated top was warm and cozy... listening to old codgers rag chew in far away places was adventurous... and adventure was and still is, the name of the game.

AA5BY

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - arlyn stewart on 07/12/2003 20:27:31

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2003 : 10:51:15

I have the Garmin GPS map 176C and cannot recommend it more highly.
The first time I used it we weren't able to reach our anchorage near St. Georges Island on the Florida Gulf coast until way after dark. In order to reach the anchorage we had to wend our way through sandbars and shallows to reach it. Totally unmarked. The Bluechip chart had all the information we needed. We reached the anchorage using the GPS alone.
I'm sure there are other units which could have done this, but only ones with chartplotting capabilities. Just having lattitude and longitude would have been lots of work transferring this information to a chart in the dark. Just having a waypoint to go to wouldn't get you around the twists and turns we would have had to do.
It may cost you a few more bucks, but what is the cost of a tow these days?

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.