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Anybody tried moving the traveller to the cabintop

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skipn809
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Initially Posted - 07/14/2003 : 21:08:43

I have a 1985 C-25 with a pop-top. The prior owner moved the traveller to in front of the companion way, with the use of a really nice rig. However, it does not work with a bimini, which is a gotta have around here, and really gets in the way on a boat this size.

I am thinking of moving it to the top of the cabin (I know-- I won't be able to use the pop-top without some kind of release) and mount it with backing plates to the cabin (not the pop) top. Has anyone else tried this, and was it a successful operation? Many thanks, Skip

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Dave B
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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2003 : 21:25:09

Me thinks you just figured out why Frank designed the C-25 with end-boom sheeting. <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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timpky
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Response Posted - 07/14/2003 : 21:50:55

This tech tip was posted by
Bon Bon in the tech tips section.
May be helpful.
http://www.catalina25-250.org/tech/tech25/bonbon.html

Tim Peoples
Sarasota, FL
78 Catalina 25 SK Hull #875

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Dave B
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Mali
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Response Posted - 07/14/2003 : 22:05:52

Bon Bon's solution is interesting, but when he removes the pins to release the crossbar and raise the poptop, what happens to the boom?

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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svmoxie
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 07/15/2003 : 18:01:30

Dave... I would guess that he attaches the backstay pigtail to the boom to prevent it from swinging when he removes the traveler.

I have considered putting padeyes on each side of the cabin top by shortening the grab rails one section. Then from there you have two good options. Both will require a bail on the boom, mid-boom or further aft.
<ul>
<li>1. Put a double block on the boom, a single block on one padeye and on the other side place a double cam swivel base (Harken # 403 as an example) with a third double block. Your maisheet is doubled through the system and you have two tails or it could easily be a continuous loop. With this system you can haul one or both lines in to trim the main. The big disadvantage is that you can not haul above midline, and actually probably not even to midline with any real load. </li>

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d934b3127cce8b55c63560b40000001610" border=0>
<li>2. You can set up two different 4 part tackles (or 6:1 tackles) and have one on each side connected from the padeyes to the bail on the boom. This will alow you to haul the boom to windward as needed as also gives you a handy tackle to use as a preventer. Downside is that it is expensive, twice the price, and more complicated to use. </li>
</ul>

Another choice is to return to the rear traveler but remove the cam from your mainsheet tackle and add a block and cam to the boom. That way the mainsheet tail is in front of you in the cockpit.
<img src="http://www.harkenstore.com/IMAGES/140.jpg" border=0>

You could even put a cam swivel on the cockpit sole but I think that would be even more in the way.

All of these modifications will have an impact on the "one design" racing on the boat but I will leave that discussion to someone more qualified than I. I suspect that what you currently have may be the least obtrusive choice while still giving ease of use.

Clif Thompson
Treasurer C-25/250 National Association.
svMoxie '81 25 sk

Edited by - svmoxie on 07/15/2003 18:02:18

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77Gypsy
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Response Posted - 07/15/2003 : 18:35:32

where exacty on teh cabin top? i think the sliding hatch would be in the way. further, to avoid that you would have to have it way forward. i had some designs i came up with to move it from the transom to right before the companion way. i was thinking of mounting it accross the cockpit but as foorward as possible in teh cockpit, my old hunter ad this style and, yes, it an be a pain entering teh cabin with your arms full of supplies, but i never really had a problem.

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy
<img src="C:Documents and SettingssteveDesktoplogo.jpg" border=0>

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skipn809
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Response Posted - 07/15/2003 : 21:10:05

Tim's system is what I had in mind. I see it a lot on O'day 27's around the marina, only I will try to get by with one less block, and I will make the towers out of stainless similar to the system on a Capri 26, which will allow me to run the running rigging thru the towers to the rope clutches and winches on the aft cabin top. will put backing plates on the towers. I have the Harken traveler and cars-- I am just too cheap to buy the towers.

I just wondered if it was user friendly, structurally sound, and still sailed good. But I guess anything will sail good if you are a good enough sailor. Thanks for the input guys.
Skip

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Dave B
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Mali
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Response Posted - 07/15/2003 : 22:19:39

Skip: A mid-boom traveller sails well because, geometrically, it has the effect of an end-boom traveler roughly twice the length. On top of that, to bridge the pop-top, the traveller has to be even longer than the factory transom-mounted unit. Thus, it gives you better angles for either flattening and depowering the main (car to leeward) or powering up the main (car to windward). That's why it's disallowed, as I recall, in the class rules. For PHRF racing, it should be cause for an adjustment to your handicap from whatever is established for a stock C-25 in your area.

Structurally, it should not require a huge amount of backing. You have a heavy plywood core in the coachroof.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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skipn809
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Response Posted - 07/15/2003 : 23:15:41

Thanks, it sounds like the thing to do. I'll put it at the top of my winter time projects list.

Skip 1985 C-25 T/R #5121 "Corporal Punishment" N.E. Mo.

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jwilliams
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Response Posted - 07/16/2003 : 13:11:38

I have always admired Bon Ton's traveller rig. But I have triple clutches mounted just aft where the legs would go, and interfering with my to-cockpit lines.

Purely speculative...could you mount the legs on the pop top. Assuming one adds additional hold downs inside.

It seems that it would not interfere with raising the top, albeit heavier. (I gotta get around to installing that eazy lift kit I bought from CD)

Whaddayathink?

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
Half Moon Bay, CA

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 07/16/2003 : 14:31:57

My two cents worth.

osmepneo has a mid-boom sheeting system with a harken "track just before the cabin entrance. The traveller has a continuous line and it adjusts the traveller very well. Biggest problem for me is working around and through the legs that are often in the way when I want to make adjustments. When racing with a crew that understands the dynamics of sailing this would be less of a problem. Secondly as you already know the traveller is already in the way when you are out for a pleasant afternoon's sail.

I haven't checked the racing rules, I know this arrangement is illegel for class racing.

One of the things I've been thinking about is putting an alternative traveller on the transom. I'd use that for class racing and informal sailing, switching to the mid-boom set up when racing outside the class.

I'm not sure how I'd set up on the cabin top. I have halyards and other control lines running aft. I was thinking about "on the pop top." Harken has do-hinges that wlll allow the traveller to be raised, probably enough to clear the companionway hatch. That might provide a feasible solution.

Hope this helps you design efforts!

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

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eric.werkowitz
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Response Posted - 07/16/2003 : 17:59:25

I always thought that if I tried to do this I would use a couple "upside down" L-shaped brackets made from heavy stainless and through-bolted to the cabin sides roughly in-line with the companion way. The track would connect the small horizontal legs of the bracket which would face inward. This would allow it to clear the pop-top and not to interfere with cabin-top winches and lines led aft. (May be a head-bonking hazard when going below, though.)

Haven't seen anyone try this, maybe there's some reason it wouldn't work. Then again, maybe we could ask the mast gate guy if he could build a prototype if we provided a model.

Just a thought. I would like a cabin-top traveler.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

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weluvlife
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Response Posted - 07/17/2003 : 00:48:24

Hi,

Very interesting topic. I have always disliked the aft main sheeting for the usual reasons. Is "BonBon" still using the center sheeting arangement over the cabin? Are any others in this group using cabin top sheeting? I'd love to see more pictures and hear of the pros and cons.

Thanks,

Mark Eichman
Lake Don Pedro,CA
'86 c25 TR, SK

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skipn809
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Response Posted - 07/19/2003 : 10:02:57

For what it is worth, I saw a Capri 26 with a cabin top system which I will try to copy. The towers are stainless steel, shaped like a triangle. The fore and aft is open, (visualize box tubing) allowing the sheets to go thru to the clutches and winches. There is a slight angle on the base and sides to get a level top for the traveller. It looks sharp and works well. I should be able to mount it between the handrails and pop-top. I don't have photos because he pulled it to work on at home, and trailer to the Great Lakes this summer. Maybe the Capri website?

Skip 1985 C-25 T/R #5121 "Corporal Punishment" N.E. Mo.

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Dave B
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Mali
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Response Posted - 07/19/2003 : 10:53:27

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I always thought that if I tried to do this I would use a couple "upside down" L-shaped brackets made from heavy stainless and through-bolted to the cabin sides roughly in-line with the companion way. The track would connect the small horizontal legs of the bracket which would face inward. This would allow it to clear the pop-top and not to interfere with cabin-top winches and lines led aft. (May be a head-bonking hazard when going below, though.)
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Eric: My first concern would be the "head bonking" part--I'd mount a 2x4 there for a while and see how you like the "impact"...

Structurally, I like Skip's (the Capri's) triangles better than the L brackets. The triangles let the lines come aft and should be very rigid. The pop-top is still an issue, but it may be mutually-exclusive with a cabin-top traveller. I don't like the idea of mounting it to the pop-top at all, except maybe as a power assist for raising the top! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - dave b on 07/19/2003 10:54:28

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eric.werkowitz
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Response Posted - 07/19/2003 : 11:12:43

Dave,

I think you're right. Besides the track where I envisioned it would interfer with a winch handle. To get clearance for it, the track would have to go forward which then blocks the pop-top. Maybe they are mutually exclusive w/o a quick release arrangement for the track.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

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skipn809
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Response Posted - 07/19/2003 : 17:12:40

I figured I would just make a quick release, by modifying one of the bolts holding the traveller to the tower with a pin through the bolt (similar to the pin holding a tow bar to a Reese Hitch). Or a hay wagon to a tractor. This is farm country, boys.

Also, I had Clif's system on my last boat, a Spindrift 24, and while it was out of the way, and allowed the pop top to work, it had the short comings he related in his post. I want something better this time.

Have a good weekend.

Skip 1985 C-25 T/R #5121 "Corporal Punishment" N.E. Mo.

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