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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Keel cable snapped

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JoergK
Navigator

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USA
140 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/21/2003 : 09:53:24

So it happened to me, too. When I wanted to leave the dock Second Wind wouldn't move in spite of my outboard's urging. Turning the winch produced a keel cable without the keel fitting. This was a new cable purchased from Catalina Direct last year, with ONLY ONE summer season service!!! Fortunately for me it happened at the dock where 2 feet of mud cushioned the drop (which on the other hand greatly complicated the subsequent retrival).
The cable parted right inside the swage fitting of the cable eye terminal. It looks like it was corroded (looked like a beaver chewed through a tree). I read somewhere that Catalina advises to replace the cable (only) every second year. Obviously this advise should be qualified. A contributing reason may be that I have no zinc. Would one of you experienced sailors out there comment on that?
Also, if indeed the missing zinc was the culprit for the cable's early demise, where and how should a zinc be attached? And, would it be sufficient to just hang a zinc overboard at the dock, like racers are supposed to be doing?

Joerg
86C25 SR-SK Second Wind

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2003 : 10:25:05

I wonder if there was a 'bad spot' in the stainless cable or fitting. ?? (improper alloy mix)

In good quaility stainless, that sort of corrosion shouldn't happen in a year.... (or a decade)

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Jay Schkloven
1st Mate

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USA
84 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2003 : 13:41:36

I replace my cable every 2 years. Last year I had some of the cable strands break for no apparent reason about 2 feet from the keel. The ball is also replace at the same time so no problems are created.
I do not have a zinc on the boat and I have only seen 2 on the 20 or so c25's at the marina.
I disconnect my battery completely after each sail and I have not seen the corrosion you mention.

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2003 : 20:09:29

A zinc might have helped... If your marina has shore power, and some boats are leaking power into the water, electrolysis can run rampant. Zincs hanging over the side would help only if you have them electrically connected to your winch/cable/keel system. Other swing owners can suggest whether and how to mount one to the keel.

If I were you, I'd show the broken cable and the swage to a rigger to get an expert diagnosis of what happened.

Be thankful for that mud!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

frich
Captain

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USA
418 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2003 : 07:38:50

I too purchased a replacement cable from Catalina Direct, has there been other reports of cables failing? Could they possibly have had a bad run of cables?

Will I be able to sail with a clear head ?????????

Frank R
84 C25 SK

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2003 : 09:04:57

Hi all,

I have had nothing but good dealings with CD-BUT- sometime ago there was a thread dealing with keel cable swages letting go. They were cables from CD.
Perhaps these folks will come forward and refresh our minds.

Val on Calista # 3936

Val Bisagni]<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df11b3127cce94709c5ff2e90000000010" border=0>

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2003 : 10:07:48

I've seen 'good' stainless... and 'bad' stainless.

The good stuff will last virtually 'forever'. The bad stuff is either poorly alloyed or has spots where the alloys weren't properly mixed... it will corrode and fail.

My previous keel cable was 25 years old.. had been in both fresh and salt water and showed no signs of corrosion when I cut it apart after removing it. After reading some recent posts, I don't think I'll be trusting the new one to last as long... and next time out, I may assemble my own or have a very reputable rigging shop make one.

I remember reading a bit in one of the Pardy books (I think ?) about them getting a bad batch of stainless rigging and having premature failures. Subsequently, he went to great lengths to get the 'good stuff' from another supplier... from England I believe...

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

svmoxie
Past Commodore

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USA
331 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2003 : 13:08:22

As a scientist, let me preface this as purely anecdotal evidence; however, like Val, I have heard too many mentions of cable failures from cables purchased from Catalina Direct. One person even reported getting a C-22 cable from them instead of the C-25 cable he ordered. Now I admit that I might not be able to tell the difference but I suspect that the C-25 cable is a larger cable...

As a result I have, and will, purchase the keel cable directly from Catalina Yachts. It is a pain dealing with their antiquated ordering system but that is a small price to pay for my sense of security.

Clif Thompson
Treasurer C-25/250 National Association.
svMoxie '81 25 sk

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2003 : 15:49:57

Whether a bad alloy mix or inferior cables from CD, there is still another option. Many c25 swingers have converted their swing keel to a wing keel. I don't really want to get off on the advantages etc. but I'd think that is an option, alabit expensive to consider.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2003 : 23:27:02

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
another option. Many c25 swingers have converted their swing keel to a wing keel. I don't really want to get off on the advantages etc. but I'd think that is an option, alabit expensive to consider.
Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Current price for the Wing keel retrofit kit is $1750 if you can pick it up yourself at the factory. Shipping can be as much as a $1000 to the east coast unless your local Catalina dealer can piggyback the keel with a shipment of boats from the factory. Installation is said to require about 20 man-hours labor assuming the boat yard crew knows how to go about it. So the whole job, for the parts and labor, would run around $3000 on the west coast to $4000 on the east coast. I have been considering it for "Quiet Time", my '79 SK/SR, but after asking opinions of a lot of Catalina owners, and our local Catalina dealer, the concensus is that it is not ecoumically sensible to do the swing-to-wing conversion on the pre-1982 "Mark I" boats (these being the original design with the gas tank in the lazarette). The re-sale value of the pre-82 boats just isn't enough to get even a partial recovery of that $3000 wing conversion. The one exception is the case of a boat where the keel trunk has been damaged by an uncontrolled free-fall of the swing keel. Under certain circumstances, it can be less expensive to do the swing-to-wing conversion than to repair the trunk, assuming the boat hasn't been sunk or totalled by the keel-crash.

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Sacramento, CA

Edited by - lcharlot on 07/28/2003 23:31:05

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2003 : 10:09:23

Larry, I agree with much of what you said about recovering the cost of the retrofit to wing. The other side of the coin is dumping the troublesome boat on some newby who might get into real trouble thinking that Catalina wouldn't sell such a fault laden design. I retrofitted my swing after considerable problems simply because I couldn't, in good conscience, unload it on an unsuspecting fellow sailor.

Val on Calista #3936

Val Bisagni]<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df11b3127cce94709c5ff2e90000000010" border=0>

Edited by - on

JoergK
Navigator

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USA
140 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2003 : 17:31:01

The issue of "recovery value" misses one point: peace of mind when not contemplating a sale but using the boat. If my cable had snapped while on-route the boat might have sunk. I'll do some thinking and counting pennies.
BTW - I showed the cable and fitting to a knowlegable guy - his judgement; clearly corrosion.
Permit me to share what happened after: couldn't get a rope under the keel because of the mud (still - yes I am grateful for the mud). Diving and clearing a path to slide the rope towards the stern end of keel wouldn't buy more than 2 feet. That ruled out winching it up. attached spare rode to halyard, other end tied to car, SLOWLY put her on 45 degrees which lifted keel partially out of mud, dove down again (all along breathing thru garden hose), cut cotter pin and removed eye termiunal of cable ftting, connected snap shackle with a line through, winched keel up a bit and secured it, had powerful power boat drag me out to deeper berth, hauled her. New cable installation took 5 minutes. That was the best.
I still love my boat.

Joerg
86C25 SR-SK Second Wind

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2003 : 20:40:50

"dove down again (all along breathing thru garden hose)"

Where there's a will there's a way....

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2003 : 21:52:48

Good work, Joerg! I love the image of the garden hose while digging in the mud 3-4 feet down... Makes me appreciate my fin!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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