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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Cracked Balanced Rudder

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Bruce Ebling
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/24/2003 : 23:11:44

I have busting my chops for the past two months trying to get me new (to me) 89WK in the water before I run out of summer. I noticed today that the lower gudgeon bolt hole nearest the leading edge of the rudder is seriously cracked from the bolt hole to the leading edge of the rudder. Has anyone else had this problem and can it be repaired? I know to replace the rudder would be expensive! Aaarrgghh, another setback! Anyway the boat is starting to look pretty good after weeks of buffing polishing, waxing and clean, clean clean. It took months to remove all of the holding tank/head system and pressure wash out the insides in an attempt to remove offensive odors. The new name is on the boat and she is beginning to come together, but the rudder is a major setback. Any help/advice would be appreciated.
Bruce Ebling
89 WK
"Selah"

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

Members Avatar

Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2003 : 23:40:17

Well, we may know the reason--did you abide by King Neptune's requirements for renaming the boat?? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Seriously, you need to remove the lower pintle (the gudgeons are on the transom) and see what's going on. If the crack continues aft of the forward hole, you have a blade that is trying to break off and leave you to motor home. If it's only forward of the hole, it could be from an impact on the forward edge (or a soft grounding). From drilling my new balanced rudder, I've concluded it's not a heavy-duty molding. You may be safe with it in protected waters, but in big seas where pitching can put major forces on the blade below the lower pintle, the crack could quickly become a break. When it happens, and it happens rarely, that's the place.

Sorry...

I'm not an expert on FG repairs--somebody else can speak to that.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 10:55:34

Hi Bruce
Good to hear from you again
I believe that we boath bought our 89 WK's at about the same time. Didn't you get yours in Salt Lake city?
I too had a cracked rudder in the same place as you.
I fixed my rudder temporarily so I could go on my shakedown cruise in the Keys, but bought a new one too.
To fix the ridder I first drilled out the holes to about a half inch hole, then filled them up with West epoxy. This was to prevent crushing when I put the bolts back in. I then wrapped the rudder blade completely across the bolt holes with 4" fiberglass seam tape. If you had the rudder standing vertical, like it was attached to the boat, this wrap is horizontal around the rudder, one for the upper pintle, and one for the lower. This temporary fix held up well in 15-20 knot winds on my 2 1/2 week shakedown cruise.
In the meantime I ordered a rudder direct from the Catalina parts department. I dealt with a man named Elario Martinez. A really nice guy, and a credit to Catalina. He informed me that there are three rudder sizes for the 89 catalina. He had me make some measurements but alas something happened in the communications and I got a non balanced rudder sent to me. He paid for it to be shipped back to him. You gotta love Catalina. I then made a drawing of my current rudder and faxed it to him, I got a new rudder delivered in about 2 weeks. It cost about 450 to 500 bucks, I forget which. This included new heavy duty pintles, which make the old ones look really cheap.
I also bought the new heavy duty gudgeons from Catalina Direct. I drilled out the holes and used 5/16" machine bolts to attach them. Really bombproof.
Elario Martinez said that Catalina has solved the problem with rudder cracking and splitting. By the looks of the new rudder I think they did a great job. No visible seams.
I applied 4 coats of Interlux interprotect epoxy on the rudder, followed by 3 coats of bottome paint. When I was hanging up the rudder to dry, it fell on my toes, breaking two of them. The ensuing infection caused me to lose 2 weeks from work. the nail is still trying to grow back, and it still hurts. WAH!

I hope this helps you out. Let us know what you are going to do, and feel free to ask me more questions if you want to. I too am doing a lot of work on my boat. The 89's are SO nice that they deserve to be preserved and upgraded.

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 11:33:59

BTW, this may not be an issue for Bruce or Frank, but I recommend that Northern sailors store their rudders where they won't freeze in the winter. A lot of cracking and splitting along seams is likely caused by internal moisture freezing. That moisture can even come from the hole where the tiller attaches.

Water is such a pain! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 17:08:38

Bruce,

I know from experience that where you describe is where they break. I doubt that any repair will make it good as new. Hence, I would recommend a replacement.

If money is a big concern (~$500 with shipping from Cat Direct)I built a rudder about three years ago for $100-150. If you're a bit competent with tools, you can do it. I can tell you how I went about it.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

Members Avatar

Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 17:38:04

One more consideration regarding repair... My new pintles leave no room for additional fiberglass adding thickness to the rudder. The pintles are practically impossible to spread--I had to have a rigger adjust them for the new rudder they were supposed to fit. So, even if a repair were a good idea (which I don't think it is), you could have a challenge with the pintles.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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premodco
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2003 : 00:13:02

I noticed a crack also..going from the forward hole on the bottom fitting to the forward edge of the rudder. It appeared to be only in the shell, but it was cracked. I had drilled out the holes years ago, filled them and then redrilled. I did repair the crack. I ground down the gelcoat and layed three layers of mat in increasing sizes around the area where the fitting sits. I filled and faired the repaired area and sprayed the rudder with...rustoleum spray paint...don't laugh. it worked fine. The rudder is probably stronger than it ever was. The only problem is that I had to open the pintle since the rudder is about 1/4" thicker at that point.

adam starr

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Greg Jackson
1st Mate

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84 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2003 : 21:17:56

Ditto on the repair to the rudder. I repaired mine instead of buying new, not to save money but for the simple reason that I had broken the original equipment once, I knew I could do it again. The rudder is the weakest point the the C25 design.

You need to grind down a very large area. I wanted mine stronger than original so I added lamination in an area about 30" or more, centered around the crack. They make a special uni-directional cloth for rudders and centerboards, you can get it from Defender. The other options are carbon fiber tow or a bilateral cloth. Bilateral cloth is pretty interesting. The warp and weave are identical, both at 45 degree angles to the lenght of the material. If you give a slight pull to the material it will become almost uni-directional. You want the fibers going up and down, the length of the rudder. Grind down the crummy original matt about to the core and add a bit over 1/8", maybe as much as 3/16" on each side. If you use uni-directional cloth and epoxy resin, you will have a $75 repair which provides a much stronger rudder than original equipment.

G. Jackson
S.V. Compass Rose

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eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2003 : 22:44:20

Greg,

I built a rudder using fiberglass over plywood. It's held up great over three summers so far. I used the uni-directional glass underneath with regular weave as an outer sheath.

If I build another I'm going to pay more attention to the twisting moment induced on the rudder by the tiller. I think the biaxial cloth laid with the fibers at 45 degrees to the leading edge will accomplish this and make the entire rudder stiffer. Uni-directional below, biaxial on top. Maybe throw some matt in between to help build thickness.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2003 : 23:43:48

There is a sailboat at my marina that has a rudder made out of some sort of plastic. It almost looks like that safety glass/plastic that is installed in some banks. If it is made out of the same material, not only would it be transparent, it would be bullet-proof.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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